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#451
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I think Chuck and I had a brief exchange about him.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#452
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I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?
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#453
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Why would Topps make a card of Benedict Arnold?
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#454
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You know the answer to that Barry.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#455
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It betrays a certain callousness, eh?
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#456
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It's the current-day example of "The Emperor's Clothes". Hopefully with time, that will change. Last edited by perezfan; 05-23-2019 at 03:10 PM. |
#457
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#458
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Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#459
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Then a card doctor ruins it by slicing off the left border, PSA misses it entirely, if anything it looks worse after defacement, and now the value increases sixty-fold. Does everyone recognize how effing ridiculous this is? |
#460
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Welcome to the Registry, son.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-23-2019 at 03:19 PM. |
#461
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"Emperor's Clothes" was too mild. "Mindless Sheep" is more in-line with that insane valuation. Whether it's the Registry, competitive greed, or just plain stupidity, PT Barnum would be beaming! Last edited by perezfan; 05-23-2019 at 03:30 PM. |
#462
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I knew you were going to say that. I know it's the registry, but it's still dumb. Fact is, the card looks really ugly and if I were grading the truncated version I would never give it a 9. What a crock.
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#463
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A lot of people (especially the old timers) say that grading has hurt the hobby. As much as I hate grading, I disagree with that. But I do think the Registry has hurt the hobby.
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#464
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It's ... wait for it .... pretty obviously short. You don't really need to measure it I don't think, the unconscious mind rejects it automatically, the Malcolm Gladwell "Blink" thing.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#465
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Uh, because someone in 2019 would pay 3k?
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#466
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Mercy, again.
A few more of these and I'm joining David James in the conspiracy camp lol. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1539
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-23-2019 at 08:02 PM. |
#467
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Quote:
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#468
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I am pretty confident there will be another major opus on the modern side soon. I really have no idea on the vintage side. I suspect there is lots more for these guys to look at as they haven't been at it that long and there's a ton of cards, but we'll see.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-23-2019 at 08:23 PM. |
#469
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There’s more coming. The work being done on Blowout is really extraordinary but it’s being done by just a few people. I understand that more are getting involved though, including some former Net 54 members! I think Brent will have an interesting National if he decides to attend.
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#470
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#471
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Jeff, I know you do criminal defense, but any chance of putting together a class action (or know anyone who could/would)? It seems to me that the odds of a formal criminal investigation is fairly low. But some retribution should occur here. Clearly countless people have been harmed civilly, and a torts lawyer could find many torts/causes of action here. With a lower burden of proof and a potentially more-damning result (hit them all in the wallet), it seems to me a that a class action/civil suit could be very effective, and could kick-start a criminal investigation too.
For me, its just getting to the point where I am convinced there is a very substantial chance that bad stuff happened here and people have been harmed, and there should be some investigation (and penalty) either by the law or courts. The courts -- through civil suit - seems the quickest and most effective means. Ryan Hotchkiss Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 05-24-2019 at 08:02 AM. |
#472
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I can not imagine him not attending. That being said, it certainly is a possibility. I think, as has been stated, that the average collector still likely does not know about all of this. And if they don’t know, then they don’t care, and we will see lines to consign at the PWCC series of tables.
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Seeking Type 1 photos especially Ruth I still love the hobby |
#473
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There are a couple of questions that I don't think have been answered (and they may not be without subpoenas or warrants)-
-what percentage of submission by the 'doctors' are getting through? Given the profit margins, I would imagine there is an acceptable level of loss (cards rejected by PSA). The answer would, to me, be the distinction between buffoonery/incompetence and outright collusion. -are these cards being reviewed by the same grader(s) and supervisors? Again, the difference between incompetence and collusion, either with or without the knowledge of corporate officials. -how were these cards submitted? In person/mail? And what kind of follow-up communication took place about those submissions? Just some thoughts |
#474
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Mercy.
https://www.facebook.com/pristinecards/ I don't have an account but here is one of the comments reproduced on Blowout. Pristine Card Cleaners We get higher grades on cards all the time. The ONE thing we can not control is centering so 9 or 8.5 centered cards are tough. We have been able to get a gem on 9 centered cards because the surface, edges and corners have to be on point. The vintage cards are tougher because of the paper they used then and the overall age of the card. Can we improve them....yes but it is not taking a 1920 tobacco card from a 2 to a 6. The newer cards are usually littered with printing issues to the edges, surface and sometimes corners. These cards SHOULD be pristine but through the manufacturing process they are not. That's why you see photos of those because it is the largest portion of the speculator market and grades really impact the value of the cards.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#475
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-24-2019 at 07:39 AM. |
#476
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Quote:
Next, Ive sued Mastro and Doug and they folded in a matter of days. With Brent, he’d be forced in litigation to turn over his emails, records, etc. and I can’t imagine he’s that crazy, although who knows. Peter does class actions and presuming we could slow down his posting output, and I’d happily help him on such a case. The more I think about it the more I’d be interested in such a case.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#477
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Pretty sure we can get there.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#478
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His emails, texts, etc. might be ... uh ... interesting.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#479
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Maybe, I was just looking to see what Ryan had in mind, is it PWCC, TPGs, Gary, etc.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#480
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I've read in multiple threads on more than one forum that Brent sent cards to PSA on behalf of Gary Moser. Is this true or is it conspiracy stuff? I'm hoping the latter. If true then that's the strongest piece of evidence that Brent/PWCC is complicit in the fraud. I remember reading about how Joe Orlando quit collecting when he took his position at PSA. That should be the same for Brent. It's harsh, but someone in that big of a position should not be a collector or subbing anything to any grading company.
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#481
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Just PWCC.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#482
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#483
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#484
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Why make it more complicated than it has to be? Go after the head of the snake.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#485
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Thanks for the reply guys. I have deleted this last post, but happy to talk offline - PM me.
Ryan Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 05-24-2019 at 08:05 AM. |
#486
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Pristine Card Cleaners appears to operate out of Athens, GA according to the Facebook entries.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#487
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Hopefully one could come up with a wider class than just limited to specific identified cards, the money is always in a large class. As long as you're not talking a crusade against BGS/PSA which was my initial concern about your post, and are focused on a specific defendant where it looks like some good evidence has been outed already, that's a better suit to consider.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-24-2019 at 08:04 AM. |
#488
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Brent better conserve his Asset, he could get altered in the can.
Pre War Card Cutter/cleaner
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors Last edited by Republicaninmass; 05-24-2019 at 08:11 AM. |
#489
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Could the argument be made that we have all been harmed in one way or another?
The people with the money and inclination have bought things that were altered to be something they aren't, and have paid very high prices to do that. That in turn had raised the prices of lower condition cards, sometimes to the point that collectors on lower budgets can't afford them at all. Not because the cards have increased in value naturally, but because the overall price has been inflated by the false grades. I suppose the opposite argument could be made, that a great many of us have benefited from the false high prices, being able to sell our cards for more. That doesn't work for me, mostly because I seldom sell anything, but to me it seems that many collectors regularly turn stuff to follow other interests in the hobby. |
#490
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I presume the class would be filed in Oregon, correct? Would it just be for in-state collectors or would it be a nationwide class with CAFA implications? I don't know anything about the federal district judges in Oregon, but here certifying a national class, particularly of fraud victims, would be pretty difficult IMO.
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#491
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#492
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#493
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I have no clue at this point, at this point I'm just responding to a post on a message board.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#494
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Fair enough, just a hypothetical that was probably too broad. Ruining a card doctor and or someone aiding that would be a start, but if a grading company was knowingly letting stuff by, I'd hope they would be dealt with too. |
#495
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I would hope that they find a way to deal with it themselves, in the first place. But we'll see.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#496
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lol!
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#497
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#499
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Quote:
An auction house sending in cards for consigners to get graded is fine. Some consigners aren't experts or even collectors (grandpa's collection), and the AH does what it best for them. I've had non collectors who have stumbled upon something valuable, and I've recommended they consign it to one of the good auction houses and let the AH handle it all for them. In these and other cases, there's nothing unethical or problematic with the AH getting the cards graded or autographs authenticated for them-- part of the servce. An AH submitting cards for someone they know been banned by the grading company from submitting for altering cards is obviously an issue, and, at the very least, the AH takes partial responsibility for any altered cards that have been submitted. If the AH is submitting cards for someone who has been banned (and the AH knows has been banned) from submitting, I don't now why (beyond the obvious $$ considerations, which, of course, is a big beyond in this hobby) the grading company wouldn't also ban the AH from submitting. Last edited by drcy; 05-24-2019 at 11:39 AM. |
#500
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Babe Ruth's dog Cloudland Dot...
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I swear I was thinking that in 1923 Babe Ruth's dog Dot was seen evacuating in the park and the leavings were collected and saved all these years, they would grade/authenticate and encapsulate and make quite a profit Scary but very possible... |
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