Very, very, interesting...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

I’M SHOCKED, SHOCKED: Not really

The thing is, for you guys that don't to buy autographs because you are concerned about authenticity, my guess is that the problem of high end doctored cards sitting in holders is 100X worse than high end forged Ruth signatures that pass 3rd party authenticators.

Actually 100X might be conservative.

It is much easier to doctor a card than do a really good Ruth forgery.

Just sayin.


Scott

I think there are problems with a lot of high grade vintage cards. Other lower grade ones I don't think have as many problems. I own around a thousand lower grade to mid grade vintage baseball cards.
I sleep well at night. If I had a thousand autographs, purchased in the last 15 yrs (as that is when I started) I am not sure I could say the same thing.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think there are problems with a lot of high grade vintage cards. Other lower grade ones I don't think have as many problems. I own around a thousand lower grade to mid grade vintage baseball cards.
I sleep well at night. If I had a thousand autographs, purchased in the last 15 yrs (as that is when I started) I am not sure I could say the same thing.

Well-said. In addition, a forged Ruth autograph is better compared to a forged card. I doubt Leon has any card forgeries. An altered card would be compared to an altered autograph.

(I had an apple this morning and not once confused it with an orange.)

[David Atkatz]

What's an "altered autograph"? No such thing. The only "alteration" is an enhancement, and that is easy to spot. I think paying NM-MT money for a VG card that's been doctored (and therefore should not have been graded at all) is analogous to buying an authenticated forged autograph.

(There's no point in forging cards, when there's no shortage of low-grade genuine examples that can be restored.)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

What's an "altered autograph"? No such thing. The only "alteration" is an enhancement, and that is easy to spot. I think paying NM-MT money for a VG card that's been doctored (and therefore should not have been graded at all) is analogous to buying an authenticated forged autograph.

(There's no point in forging cards, when there's no shortage of low-grade genuine examples that can be restored.)

David- stick to autographs....... Have you ever tried to alter a vg card into a NRMT-MT one? Yes, there are a very, very few that could have a surface wrinkle but otherwise be NMT-MT, but mainly a vg card, true vg with honest wear, would have to be trimmed down to a toothpick size to make it have pointy corners. I agree about altered autographs and that there wouldn't be many of those either. I will go back to 1000 cards in mid grade vs 1000 autographs? I will take the cards as having less issues. Now if you were to change the question to be "are there more NRMT+ pre-war cards with problems vs pre-war autographs, I think the difference is much closer. We sure don't see the amount of over-sized cards that were around 20+ yrs ago, I wonder why? (so I do understand the point being made)

Even though this is a nice card it could never be made into NRMT-MT, imo....and get pass anyone with any knowledge of the series..

[David Atkatz]

I'm sure you've heard of building up corners, Leon. I wasn't talking about trimming cards. I was talking about restoring them.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I'm sure you've heard of building up corners, Leon. I wasn't talking about trimming cards. I was talking about restoring them.

Like I said David....stick to autos and I will stick to cards .

[David Atkatz]

Right, Leon. There are no restored cards in PSA slabs.
And this Christmas we'll all see peace on Earth and good will towards men.

(I'm sure Bill Mastro knows what I'm talking about. )

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

What's an "altered autograph"? No such thing.

David - that's my point. There's almost no chance of a halfway knowledgeable card collector buying a forgery; however there's a very good chance of a halfway knowledgeable autograph collector getting stuck with a forgery at some point.

But if I had to choose, I would much rather get stuck with an altered Ruth card than a forged Ruth signature. The former would still have value.