Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson Reinstated by MLB

[Blunder19]

Both are now HOF eligible. Good news for those who have their rookie cards... What is everyone's thoughts here...

[biggsdaddycool]

Hell hath frozen over!

Long overdue.

Too bad it happened after Pete passed.


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[ullmandds]

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

+1

[BioCRN]

Yeah, the dude who was hooking up with a 14-15 year old when he was a married 30-something year old can miss me with insisting she was 16 when it started and never crossed state lines and therefore it was legal and cool.

Good for Shoeless Joe, though.

[Bpm0014]

How can they let in a guy that took money to throw World's Series games?

[packs]

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

[jayshum]

At least there will be something else to write about Hall of Fame voting besides whether PEDs should keep someone out.

[BioCRN]

Evidently the reinstatement is now a new MLB policy that "ineligible ends at death"...it's not specifically for these 2 guys...though political pressure most likely is why this is happening.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

Based on current rules, no longer being on the permanently banned list should make them eligible for appearing on a Hall of Fame ballot. At this point, it would presumably be one of the Eras Committees.

[biggsdaddycool]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

Agreed.

A buddy and I were just texting about this. If I were either of their families I would tell the Hall to pound sand.


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[Brian Van Horn]

Stupidity.

[biggsdaddycool]

No doubt MLB sees some sort of money making scheme in reinstating them.


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[Apple_Robert]

I say continue to keep them out of the HoF.


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[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

No doubt MLB sees some sort of money making scheme in reinstating them.


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Manfred met with Trump last month. In February Trump was tweeting about "pardoning" him. He's spoken about it between then and now. He'll probably have something to tweet about it sometime between now and tomorrow.

Manfred didn't become commish recently, nor is this a new subject of debate.

[BioCRN]

Full list of those impacted, fwiw...

Eddie Cicotte
Happy Felsch
Chick Gandil
Joe Jackson
Fred McMullin
Swede Risberg
Buck Weaver
Lefty Williams
Joe Gedeon
Gene Paulette
Benny Kauff
Lee Magee
Phil Douglas
Cozy Dolan
Jimmy O’Connell
William Cox (executive)
Pete Rose

[biggsdaddycool]

Honestly, isn’t some of the current value in most of the Black Sox that they were banned?

Takes a little of the infamy out of their names.

Certainly will be interesting going forward.


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[Johnny T]

Personally, I'm glad they are both in. Pete was my childhood idol...loved the way he played ("a try hard" as my kids call people like him) and since I was an average to an above average, I tried harder than others to excel.

Of course, later on in life, I learned Pete was not the greatest person in the world...far from it. I walked by the store he used to sign in Vegas and didn't give it much thought to bother to walk in and see him...but none of how I felt about him as an adult changed the way I felt about Pete as a player. Other than Cobb, I'm not sure any player wanted to win more.

None of us are old enough to remember what it was like seeing Jackson play, but I always felt like he got a raw deal more so than Rose. They say Jackson wasn't educated, was probably taken advantage of financially by Comiskey and my guess is that in the end, he didn't curtail his play based on his stats in the WS.

So better or worse, I'm glad they are both eligible...If they get in the Hall, great...they certainly deserve it based on their play.

Let's face it...we all have our skeletons....

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Full list of those impacted, fwiw...

Eddie Cicotte
Happy Felsch
Chick Gandil
Joe Jackson
Fred McMullin
Swede Risberg
Buck Weaver
Lefty Williams
Joe Gedeon
Gene Paulette
Benny Kauff
Lee Magee
Phil Douglas
Cozy Dolan
Jimmy O’Connell
William Cox (executive)
Pete Rose

Why would Hal Chase not be included?

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Why would Hal Chase not be included?

Commish office didn't exist. He technically may be HOF eligable under HOF (different org) rules now, though.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

Yes, this only makes them eligible to be on the ballot. Whether they get in or not is another question.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ironically, you can probably place bets on whether they will be elected or not.

[oldjudge]

I'm really glad that Pete and Jackson are now eligible. In the mid-1990s I took my daughter to a card show in central Connecticut and we were in line to get Pete's autograph. She was about 7 at the time which was the same age as Pete's daughter. He told my daughter that he had a daughter about the same age as her, stopped all his signing to get his suitcase that was under the table, opened it and pulled out a picture of his daughter to show her. I thought it was an incredible moment and I have admired the guy ever since.
As for Jackson, I think his scarcer cards, like some M101s, will explode in value if he is elected to the HOF.

[Brian Van Horn]

Have to wonder how much the card prices will plummet on the players on the list. Jackson may be an exception. Still, he did take the $5000.00.

[Smanzari]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Full list of those impacted, fwiw...

Eddie Cicotte
Happy Felsch
Chick Gandil
Joe Jackson
Fred McMullin
Swede Risberg
Buck Weaver
Lefty Williams
Joe Gedeon
Gene Paulette
Benny Kauff
Lee Magee
Phil Douglas
Cozy Dolan
Jimmy O’Connell
William Cox (executive)
Pete Rose

I wonder what this means for Hal Chase - IIRC he was never formally banned, but it was assumed because of his gambling history. (see this was answered above, but still leaving)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Smanzari

I wonder what this means for Hal Chase - IIRC he was never formally banned, but it was assumed because of his gambling history. (see this was answered above, but still leaving)

He of the 23.0 WAR?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Both are now HOF eligible. Good news for those who have their rookie cards... What is everyone's thoughts here...

I can see why you would presume so, but my guess is it's bad news for those who have their rookie cards.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I can see why you would presume so, but my guess is it's bad news for those who have their rookie cards.

Why?

[refz]

I think this great and good for baseball right now.

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

Hell hath frozen over!

Long overdue.

Too bad it happened after Pete passed.


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It only happened *because* Pete passed away. He took one for the proverbial team.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I can see why you would presume so, but my guess is it's bad news for those who have their rookie cards.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Why?

If they were priced as if they were Hall of Famers and they don't get in now, prices could go down.

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

The HOF *should* be independent, but they've always done whatever MLB says.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Apple_Robert

I say continue to keep them out of the HoF.


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They will never get in!!

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by jayshum

If they were priced as if they were Hall of Famers and they don't get in now, prices could go down.

If Jackson and Rose don't get it, nothing will change. Collectors will continue to view them as persecuted individuals within the sport.

Anyone with any sense in their head understands that both of them absolutely deserve to be first ballot HOFers based on their statistical careers.

This is publicity, any way it turns out, and can't possibly be bad for the value of their cards. At least, I can't see how it would be.

[Belfast1933]

So much to say but Leon politely reminds us to avoid politics so I’ll just say, disappointed in the news today for my game of baseball and leave it at that.

[Mark17]

Jackson and Weaver were always gray area but Cicotte plunking Morrie Rath to start the Series (and the fix) should never be pardoned in any way.

[Casey2296]

-
Considering how Manfred & MLB have bent the knee and embraced gambling in their sport I see no reason these two should be kept out of the Hall for gambling, that horse has left the barn.
I'm ambivalent on Rose since he's not a very likeable human but Joe should definitely be in.
-

[bmattioli]

Long overdue. Bet Rose is chuckling up there..

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

Long overdue. Bet Rose is chuckling up there..

And still signing autographs, probably.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

-
Considering how Manfred & MLB have bent the knee and embraced gambling in their sport I see no reason these two should be kept out of the Hall for gambling, that horse has left the barn.
I'm ambivalent on Rose since he's not a very likeable human but Joe should definitely be in.
-

I still see a difference between embracing gambling for non-participants and embracing players and coaches who bet on games that they can directly influence.

I embrace the stock market. I condemn insider trading.

I also see betting against your team as an order of magnitude worse than other forms of cheating that affect the integrity of the game. If winning is the primary objective of a team sport like baseball, then purposely losing is a cardinal sin. At least steroid users, bat corkers, spitballers, and players banging on trash cans did so with the goal of achieving the best possible outcome on the field. They should get an asterisk for gaining an unfair advantage, sure, but there's a special place in baseball hell for people who tank for money.

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And still signing autographs, probably.

[drmiraculous]

I was under the impression that Pete took the ban because it meant that the info on his illicit drug sales to cover gambling debts wouldn't have to be publicized.

Great news for Shufflin Phil tho.

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

Long overdue. Bet Rose is chuckling up there..

Or down there

[inceptus]

Looks like my "Free Lee Magee" campaign finally had the desired effect...

[Beercan collector]

Financial decision - His own fault he was banned but he should’ve stayed banned , I know lifetime ban blah blah blah but have some integrity - Pete Rose was not allowed to be part of baseball while he was alive but now that he’s dead baseball can and will exploit him - Pete Rose night already scheduled for tomorrow .
https://www.mlb.com/press-release/pete-rose-night
Seems they forgot to do the bobble heads

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Financial decision - His own fault he was banned but he should’ve stayed banned , I know lifetime ban blah blah blah but have some integrity - Pete Rose was not allowed to be part of baseball while he was alive but now that he’s dead baseball can and will exploit him - Pete Rose night already scheduled for tomorrow .
https://www.mlb.com/press-release/pete-rose-night
Seems they forgot to do the bobble heads

Hardly the first time Cincinnati has had a Pete Rose night

[egri]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And still signing autographs, probably.

I’m sure he is a regular at Coaches Corner.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

-
Considering how Manfred & MLB have bent the knee and embraced gambling in their sport I see no reason these two should be kept out of the Hall for gambling, that horse has left the barn.
I'm ambivalent on Rose since he's not a very likeable human but Joe should definitely be in.
-

I’ve never understood the argument that MLB accepting advertising dollars from Gaming Companies somehow makes gambling within the sport a lesser offense. It’s pretty simple, every major sports entity both professional and amateur forbids sports wagering and the cardinal sin is beating on your own sport/team. It’s not an ethical dilemma without an answer. My company accepts advertising dollars from Liquor and Beer companies, that shouldn’t somehow morally protect me from action if I’m drinking on the job. I wouldn’t somehow be in some deep ethos predicament if Jeff in accounting was fired for pounding airplane bottles of Tito’s all day long just because we advertise InBev corp.

But really Jeff, you need to cool a bit. You aren’t fooling anyone.

[ThomasL]

Yes the HOF is seperate from MLB and could have just said they would still be ineligible...but the HOF came out today as well and said they would allow the banned players to be eligible. They could be on the 2027 Eras Committee ballot at the earliest. BC they changed up the Eras Committees a few years ago hey would all be on the same ballot.

I think these guys items are already at HOF values or better...the only one I see that could get a bump is Eddie Cicotte...he has an outside shot at HOF and he is the lowest priced items of the 8 Men Out.


Is it possible 8 men out prices outside Jackson will drop in value???

Also this was not a new argument...Joe Jackson supporters have been arguing the ban should end at death for decades now and it all fell on deaf ears...

[sbfinley]

Also I was today years old when I realized Sherry Magee and Lee Magee were not the same person.