Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson Reinstated by MLB

[ullmandds]

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

+1

[Bpm0014]

How can they let in a guy that took money to throw World's Series games?

[packs]

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

Based on current rules, no longer being on the permanently banned list should make them eligible for appearing on a Hall of Fame ballot. At this point, it would presumably be one of the Eras Committees.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

Yes, this only makes them eligible to be on the ballot. Whether they get in or not is another question.

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it even matter if MLB reinstated them? The Hall of Fame is independent of MLB and as far as I know makes their own rules about induction and eligibility.

The HOF *should* be independent, but they've always done whatever MLB says.

[jayshum]

At least there will be something else to write about Hall of Fame voting besides whether PEDs should keep someone out.

[BioCRN]

Evidently the reinstatement is now a new MLB policy that "ineligible ends at death"...it's not specifically for these 2 guys...though political pressure most likely is why this is happening.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

How can they let in a guy that took money to throw World's Series games?

Funny thing is, many on this board are perfectly willing to throw serious money at Shoeless Joe cards to get their Black Sox fix.

Brian

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

How can they let in a guy that took money to throw World's Series games?

Didn’t throw WS, check his stats for the series.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Didn’t throw WS, check his stats for the series.

First four losses, he hit 4 for 16, with 3 of those hits in 1 game. It's easily arguable that his effort fluctuated with whether Chicago was trying to win or not.

[ThomasL]

Originally Posted by Tabe

First four losses, he hit 4 for 16, with 3 of those hits in 1 game. It's easily arguable that his effort fluctuated with whether Chicago was trying to win or not.

One could argue this yes...0-4 in game 1 looks bad...however...

...there is a strong argument to be made that Games 1 and 2 were thrown and the fix was called off after that with possibly Williams himself throwing game 8 by himself...Jackson was 3-4 in game 2, a fixed game, and 2-5 with 3 RBI & a HR in game 8. Fixer Billy Maharg stated games 1,2, & 8 were fixed.

This is a good example to why you cant judge anything about fixed games...it is possible Jackson was not trying in game 1...it is also possible he had a bad day...Eddie Collins was 1-4 in game 1 and 0-3 in game 2...3-19 in the 5 loses with 3 hits coming in game 8 after the game and series was decided...a performance worse than Jackson's...so was he throwing games?

We can cherry pick the stats of the series many different ways.

I believe Jackson testimony where he said he knew about the fix, turned the offer down, played to win and was given money by his friend Lefty Williams unprompted. He never was in a meeting with players and gamblers unlike Buck Weaver. His total series stats are solid and to suggest he was so good he could get hits at will is kind of crazy to me. I believe Maharg when he said games 1,2 and 8 were fixed...why would he lie about that...

After game 2 Kid Gleason held a team meeting and read them the riot act as they all knew it was being fixed at that point and I think the players straightened up and tried to win from then on...except Williams in game 8...but even then you could argue the pressure got to Williams and he laid an egg in game 8...you can not tell what is real with fixed games. Jackson's name has never came up in regards o fixing games in 1920 either unlike Weaver and other Black Sox. It also goes a long way with me that many of the Clean Sox later in life always said they didnt think Jackson fixed games...or stated some kind of sympathy for the man for his punishment.

And even if I am completely wrong there is enough doubt to warrant reconsideration of Jackson's role...unlike Rose who again knew exactly what he was doing and the punishment

[biggsdaddycool]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i believe their cards are already HOF priced in!

Agreed.

A buddy and I were just texting about this. If I were either of their families I would tell the Hall to pound sand.


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[Brian Van Horn]

Stupidity.