Some of the mysteries and myths surrounding the most famous card in the hobby.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

My post has nothing to do with a specific card. Just showing that it would be beyond easy to do for someone with a little knowledge and willingness to learn.

People always bring up the 52 Mantle and the T206 Wagner and say why don't they make/counterfeit them. For the same reason nobody tries to counterfeit the Mona Lisa.

I am not referring to a specific card either. I've heard many tales of imperceptible fakes of many baseball cards, but nary evidence. Perhaps that evidence is out there, but I have never seen it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I am not referring to a specific card either. I've heard many tales of imperceptible fakes of many baseball cards, but nary evidence. Perhaps that evidence is out there, but I have never seen it.

LOL, If it is undetectable how would you ever see it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, If it is undetectable how would you ever see it.

LOL, how did they figure out those historic books were actually fakes? Most conspiracies come undone by the tongue.

I know critical reasoning is very unpopular around here, but believing gossip sans evidence is foolish. I believe what evidence suggests. If I see no evidence to support a conclusion, then I do not draw that conclusion. It is not complicated.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

LOL, how did they figure out those historic books were actually fakes? Most conspiracies come undone by the tongue.

I know critical reasoning is very unpopular around here, but believing gossip sans evidence is foolish. I believe what evidence suggests. If I see no evidence to support a conclusion, then I do not draw that conclusion. It is not complicated.

If you read the entire story on the book in the link the counterfeiter left a tell it was fake so when/if he got caught he would do way less time. Watching the PBS special is highly recommended. I know I really enjoyed it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If you read the entire story on the book in the link the counterfeiter left a tell it was fake so when/if he got caught he would do way less time. Watching the PBS special is highly recommended. I know I really enjoyed it.

I saw it when it aired a couple years ago. There were other differences found, not intentional ones, after people finally started to question the too good to be true story. I see this article specifically highlights the library seal.

I don’t disagree that it is feasible such fakes could theoretically be made. To believe that that they have been for 30, 50, 70 years would require some evidence, if we are reasonable people. The world is replete with stories of this nature, of perfect crimes, of on-the-surface-plausible things happening but constructed into a perfectly clean story, without any attribution, without any source origin, without any evidence at all. It is precisely why they linger for decades, because they are on the surface possible and vague enough to make it impossible to prove the negative. And so they linger, are retold, and many seem to suspend logic and a reasonable criteria of evidence to believe the old tale. We would have a much better understanding of sets and the T cards if we didn’t believe gossip rumors or base belief on who is pushing what theory, and simply stuck to the actual evidence.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, If it is undetectable how would you ever see it.

Ha

[RCMcKenzie]

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

Asking questions and looking for evidence is the opposite of old lady gossip. If an assertion is made and said to be true, that claim should be supported by evidence.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

That card sold for 86k back in a 2001 Mastro auction I'm not sure but I think the image was copied from a catalog but regardless it's not a great image plus it has other things going on with it like a grey layer shift and some other transfer on the front. With that said the caption looks like normal color for a T206 caption to me everything else is hard to judge with small low detail image.
One thing that does look odd is the G in Pittsburg is higher than the other letters and other Wagners.

Here it is brightened up a little
00b.jpg

[RCMcKenzie]

Yeah, the caption looks more normal on your image. It's difficult to say looking at scans. It has a wavy left border.

I was around the boards in 2001. I don't recall this auction, but posters used to talk about his auctions a lot. I wonder if anyone remembers talk of that sale, or still has the catalog.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Yeah, the caption looks more normal on your image. It's difficult to say looking at scans. It has a wavy left border.

I was around the boards in 2001. I don't recall this auction, but posters used to talk about his auctions a lot. I wonder if anyone remembers talk of that sale, or still has the catalog.

You can read the story on that Wagner pages 5,6 & 7 of part 7 it's an interesting story.


https://www.t206resource.com/Article...gner-File.html