OT: 3.5 Million Dollar Scam - Pokemon Cards Certified by BBCE

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Or the price umbrella that the fraud creates makes money for them.

Agreed. In those cases, they're collecting money. You know that saying about the love of money and the root of all evil...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by japhi

I posted similar on the CU boards, that in a hobby full of crooks this will have no impact on BBCE. We tolerate criminals and cheats to get the best stuff, why would anyone hold a hobby good guy that made a mistake to a higher standard?

All that said, for me this make me wonder how much bad product is under BBCE wrap. Maybe we have put too much faith in their ability to authenticate product that will never be opened. I mean how hard would it really be to rewrap a pack, box or case. Clearly not that hard.

Not to excuse it, but I think it's not unusual for people in many professions eventually to get a bit of Dunning-Kruger syndrome and as a result of overconfidence, maybe cut corners or not be as diligent as they should be, or even get out over their skis in terms of taking on tasks they probably aren't qualified for.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Agreed. In those cases, they're collecting money. You know that saying about the love of money and the root of all evil...

To clarify:

Some people in this hobby don't collect cards, they only collect money/cash/profits.

[Kutcher55]

Seems like this one has come off the rails. Maybe a little off topic, but it very difficult to prove that old wax packs haven’t been tampered with? That’s why I have never been interested in paying $$ for graded wax no matter who slabbed it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Agreed. In those cases, they're collecting money. You know that saying about the love of money and the root of all evil...

Not accusing anyone here specifically, but my belief is there has been a huge conspiracy of silence in the hobby about fraudsters for exactly this reason. Insiders have known for years who's doing what to cards.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not accusing anyone here specifically, but my belief is there has been a huge conspiracy of silence in the hobby about fraudsters for exactly this reason. Insiders have known for years who's doing what to cards.

100% true because they have benefited from it or plan to benefit from it too. I have to admit collectors can be just as bad they want to believe their beloved cards are 100% legit and only go up in value so the keep hush.

It’s the don’t bite the hand that feeds you mentality. Even if the hand that’s feeding you is dishonest.

[Eric72]

By the way, every thread needs a card:

[lowpopper]

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ironic that this forum seems to have more contempt for an honorable guy like Steve Hart who admittedly fucked up than the countless criminals trimming and otherwise altering cards, knowingly selling altered cards, knowingly GRADING altered cards, shilling auctions, knowingly selling fake memorabilia, and so forth.

Of course. The transparency of people is stunning...and not in a good way. The criminals who trim and shill are offering things most of the hobby needs. As long as you are offering them cards on they need and you can ship them quickly and affordably, it is super easy to look the other way for fraud. Steve only has value to a small part of the hobby.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Of course. The transparency of people is stunning...and not in a good way. The criminals who trim and shill are offering things most of the hobby needs. As long as you are offering them cards on they need and you can ship them quickly and affordably, it is super easy to look the other way for fraud. Steve only has value to a small part of the hobby.

I'm sorry, who is looking the other way exactly? Are you talking about certain dealers, or auction houses or what?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Of course. The transparency of people is stunning...and not in a good way. The criminals who trim and shill are offering things most of the hobby needs. As long as you are offering them cards on they need and you can ship them quickly and affordably, it is super easy to look the other way for fraud. Steve only has value to a small part of the hobby.

This is Spot On !!!! On This board a lot of guys care about the trimming and shilling. In the modern market most could give a darn less. Manny on Facebook and ebay buying have no idea about PWCC or the info on blowout.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I'm sorry, who is looking the other way exactly? Are you talking about certain dealers, or auction houses or what?

Law enforcement?

Any collector who has held his nose and dealt with the likes of PWCC?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Law enforcement?



Any collector who has held his nose and dealt with the likes of PWCC?

I'd say you are 0 for 2 there but let's see what Mr. Walker has to say.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[CollectorCMC]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

how is that a 10 perforated if it has been trimmed?

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by CollectorCMC

how is that a 10 perforated if it has been trimmed?

it has perforations on top, right, and bottom. left side is the edge of the sheet. it's a beauty

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I'd say you are 0 for 2 there but let's see what Mr. Walker has to say.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

He's actually 2 for 2

[Ray Van]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

it has perforations on top, right, and bottom. left side is the edge of the sheet. it's a beauty

To my eye, no way that should be a 10. Perforations or no perforations.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ray Van

To my eye, no way that should be a 10. Perforations or no perforations.

Here's one with actual perforations. Right side, not left, is the edge of the sheet. Calling BS on that 10 until proven wrong.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one with actual perforations. Right side, not left, is the edge of the sheet. Calling BS on that 10 until proven wrong.

What part is BS? Sure looks to have a 10 on the slab unless it is photoshopped.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

What part is BS? Sure looks to have a 10 on the slab unless it is photoshopped.

Every word of this, for starters.

"it has perforations on top, right, and bottom. left side is the edge of the sheet. it's a beauty"

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Every word of this, for starters.

"it has perforations on top, right, and bottom. left side is the edge of the sheet. it's a beauty"

C'mon you know the label is all that maters to PSA slab collectors and it clearly has a 10 on it. The rest is totally irrelevant.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one with actual perforations. Right side, not left, is the edge of the sheet. Calling BS on that 10 until proven wrong.

Looks like they had multiple sheet layouts. I found a few like lowpopper posted.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fair enough, to that extent I stand corrected.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's one with actual perforations. Right side, not left, is the edge of the sheet. Calling BS on that 10 until proven wrong.

Here are both sheets

[Peter_Spaeth]

Right, but I assume from the raw cards that Ben and I posted, as well as my knowledge of Si for Kids sheets, you get major perforations when you separate them manually.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right, but I assume from the raw cards that Ben and I posted, as well as my knowledge of Si for Kids sheets, you get major perforations when you separate them manually.

Perforations can be scored before separation to limit the fibers from separating roughly

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Perforations can be scored before separation to limit the fibers from separating roughly

How is that not altering the card? It should be an AUTH, as are many of the SI Kids cards that have been done that way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How is that not altering the card? It should be an AUTH, as are many of the SI Kids cards that have been done that way.

It is just a cleaner way of separating the cards before the perforations are trimmed almost completely off. I say it looks good enough for a Purple sticker.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He's of a certain generation. Maybe he doesn't follow social media/Pokemon forums/whatever.

I'm of a certain generation (and I don't like it). I don't even know Pokemon forums existed.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'm of a certain generation (and I don't like it). I don't even know Pokemon forums existed.

Frank it is never too late to take that T206 cash and invest it Pokemon.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is just a cleaner way of separating the cards before the perforations are trimmed almost completely off. I say it looks good enough for a Purple sticker.

Maybe so, but not a 10.

[chriskim]

I didn't know Charizard is only 200lb, with that belly I would think it would be at least 300lb.

[Exhibitman]

Charizard? Who gives a shit? What's next, Garbage Pail Kids?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Charizard? Who gives a shit? What's next, Garbage Pail Kids?

I sold 6 packs of Series One Garbage Pail Kids a few auctions back for over $3k

[ALBB]

I buy 6 packs sometimes

[Jeffrompa]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Charizard? Who gives a shit? What's next, Garbage Pail Kids?

When there’s not enough vintage to collect .

[lowpopper]

real name no gimmicks

[Fuddjcal]

I once said on this board that it all was a "BILLION DOLLAR FRAUD" .

Are the naysayers still talking shit?

It's a unfettered billion dollar fraud folks. Accept it.

[Lorewalker]

The ever awesome Logan Paul in "hobby" news again.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/loga...ycsrp_catchall

[samosa4u]

It's just amazing what this guy does for Pokemon cards. It kind of reminds me of what David Peck did for wrestling cards. These guys are truly in love with this stuff and they could do it all day every day. They're not like Gary Vaynerchuk, who was dancing with his pom poms during the pandemic, and poof, just vanished!

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The ever awesome Logan Paul in "hobby" news again.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/loga...ycsrp_catchall

I am patiently waiting for his 15 minutes to be up.

[Schlesinj]

Well he just opened a fractional investment company, so it is not over yet.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I am patiently waiting for his 15 minutes to be up.

Well he and his brother are staples in our "culture", I'm afraid.