Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

[jggames]

Originally Posted by G1911

That Polar Bear is not present in the 1/4 (at absolute most, we do not and cannot possibly know how long it actually was originally) of this work whose surviving contents pages are clearly not complete does not mean it was not produced as T206.
Is there a single shred of evidence to support a claim that since PB is not T206 (a rather fluid, after-the-fact construct) outside of this series of stacking assumptions based on presence in the ledger remnants? None has been produced.

I missed the claim that PB shouldn’t be considered T206 because they weren’t in the ledger. Or that the ledger had anything to do with the “T206” definition at all.

I certainly think it’s a T206 along with “Coupon” Type-1 - they just may not have been packed at the Ledger’s place of distribution.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jggames

I missed the claim that PB shouldn’t be considered T206 because they weren’t in the ledger. Or that the ledger had anything to do with the “T206” definition at all.

I certainly think it’s a T206 along with “Coupon” Type-1 - they just may not have been packed at the Ledger’s place of distribution.

The thread is about if Coupon should be classified as T206. We have an argument in post 209 that Polar Bear and Coupon "almost certainly should be in this journal" if they were produced in 1910. The Journal dates covering 1909-1912 are highlighted in posts 209 and 211, suggesting that the cards are form a different time, though we have withdrawn from the 'it can't be from 1909 to 1912 because it wasn't ATC until 1914' that was originally part of it and the earlier replies. In bold red, it is said that "they weren't printed and distributed with the other t206 brands." If they were not printed and distributed, both in time and geographically, with the rest of T206, how should they possibly be classified T206? As the thread is quite specifically and explicitly about what should and should not be classified as T206, I struggle to see any relevance to the subject if this is not the argument. If I misunderstood Mr. Pat_R's argument, he's had several replies to correct this directly stated counterargument.

As to your second point, the Ledger does not appear to belong to a place of distribution whatsoever. It includes many brands from many different factories, not a single distribution center/factory. If we must assign it to a geographical place, the inclusion of the Posey letters would indicate it came from a corporate office at 111 Fifth Ave. in NYC.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

The thread is about if Coupon should be classified as T206. We have an argument in post 209 that Polar Bear and Coupon "almost certainly should be in this journal" if they were produced in 1910. The Journal dates covering 1909-1912 are highlighted in posts 209 and 211, suggesting that the cards are form a different time, though we have withdrawn from the 'it can't be from 1909 to 1912 because it wasn't ATC until 1914' that was originally part of it and the earlier replies. In bold red, it is said that "they weren't printed and distributed with the other t206 brands." If they were not printed and distributed, both in time and geographically, with the rest of T206, how should they possibly be classified T206? As the thread is quite specifically and explicitly about what should and should not be classified as T206, I struggle to see any relevance to the subject if this is not the argument. If I misunderstood Mr. Pat_R's argument, he's had several replies to correct this directly stated counterargument.

As to your second point, the Ledger does not appear to belong to a place of distribution whatsoever. It includes many brands from many different factories, not a single distribution center/factory. If we must assign it to a geographical place, the inclusion of the Posey letters would indicate it came from a corporate office at 111 Fifth Ave. in NYC.

Greg, the reason for several replies is because Ted asked me why the Polar Bears weren't in the ledger in post #210, 212, and 218 and I gave a couple of reasons why I thought they might not be in the ledger.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

The thread is about if Coupon should be classified as T206. We have an argument in post 209 that Polar Bear and Coupon "almost certainly should be in this journal" if they were produced in 1910. The Journal dates covering 1909-1912 are highlighted in posts 209 and 211, suggesting that the cards are form a different time, though we have withdrawn from the 'it can't be from 1909 to 1912 because it wasn't ATC until 1914' that was originally part of it and the earlier replies. In bold red, it is said that "they weren't printed and distributed with the other t206 brands." If they were not printed and distributed, both in time and geographically, with the rest of T206, how should they possibly be classified T206? As the thread is quite specifically and explicitly about what should and should not be classified as T206, I struggle to see any relevance to the subject if this is not the argument. If I misunderstood Mr. Pat_R's argument, he's had several replies to correct this directly stated counterargument.

As to your second point, the Ledger does not appear to belong to a place of distribution whatsoever. It includes many brands from many different factories, not a single distribution center/factory. If we must assign it to a geographical place, the inclusion of the Posey letters would indicate it came from a corporate office at 111 Fifth Ave. in NYC.

The Letters are from the Kinney Brothers packing plant to Posey at 111 Fifth Ave. The original Kinney Brothers building was at West 22nd St. NYC but it was gutted by a fire in 1892 I
don't know if they rebuilt it or relocated. At the time of the fire they were processing 18,000,000 cigarettes a week.