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#351
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#352
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I’m fearful of that as well Peter. We have both been around way to long to think otherwise....one can only hope.
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#353
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#354
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This one takes the cake as the absolute worst of the worst to me
Ray Charles could have seen this.... Mr. Orlando could you please explain what’s your Opinion On this One?? https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=14874068 Last edited by Johnny630; 07-24-2019 at 11:01 AM. |
#355
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What a complete and utter joke PSA is!!
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#356
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Superdan coined it The Impressionist "Claude Monet Ruth" In snobbish art critic voice... I personally think it's more of an Abstract piece, with an influence that lies somewhere between Rothko and Pollock. Amazingly, the blades of grass appear both vertical and horizontal, with mixed shades of green that imply a subtle Moser influence as well. Reminiscent of a very early Moser masterpiece, circa kindergarten or perhaps first grade. Bravo, PSA! Last edited by perezfan; 07-24-2019 at 04:01 PM. |
#357
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-24-2019 at 09:15 PM. |
#358
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Mr. Orlando your Opinion Givers are lousy |
#359
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Never
Get wait for it Cheated
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#360
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His company is FAKE NEWS OPINION GIVERS
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#361
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It's staggering what the average, good faith collector or even investor is up against in terms of the institutions that dominate this hobby. Good Lord. And just look at the contemptuous response from Orlando, putting down the people trying to call it all out as a handful spreading fear or whatever obnoxious words he used.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-24-2019 at 09:34 PM. |
#362
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The pompous arrogance from PSA really hits home.....when they should be ashamed of their opinions they boast about the. Last edited by Johnny630; 07-24-2019 at 09:35 PM. |
#363
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59 Mantle 7 to 8.5
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4621
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#364
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Always get cheated |
#365
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Old Judge Keefe Bat 4 to 7 5K gain
Not sure it makes the refund pile, it's "only" chemically cleaned apparently. I mean conserved. Long live the tenets. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4629
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-25-2019 at 09:12 AM. |
#366
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Next we will see cards like this in Newport Beach Opinion Givers Holders disintegrate over time.....card is prob the consistency of peanut brittle |
#367
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A $5,360 profit from a chemical bath that took a few minutes to execute. This one is so sad, as the Keefe card had beautifully survived for 132 years, relatively unscathed. Now it has chemicals leaching throughout, within its tomb. Who knows what level of deterioration will occur within that slab over the next 132 years? Hopefully the new owner who paid $6,600 for the card will see this, and get proper restitution. |
#368
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-25-2019 at 10:36 AM. |
#369
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But the flip, my friend.... the flip is what counts.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#370
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So chemical treatments don't count to them, as being returnable? Seems like a lot more than just a "cleaning", and should definitely be classified as reimbursable (along with trimmed and re-colored examples). That really stinks, if indeed true. Last edited by perezfan; 07-25-2019 at 10:50 AM. |
#371
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Buyers are being notified by email and phone. The first round of buyers are those who bought clearly altered cards, i.e. trimming and recoloring. The more grey stuff (cleaning, pressed corners) is being mostly put on the back burner for now except in egregious cases. This is all a fluid situation subject to my discussions with the government. It’s not a perfect situation but it’s more perfect than anything that has ever occurred previously in fraud cases in the hobby.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#372
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Not all chemicals will do that. The biggest problem is that we don't know what was used and what effects it has long term.
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#373
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#374
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#375
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T206 Johnson Portrait
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#376
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Peter, I have not even looked at the T206 Yet but on the Seaver and Ryan Rookies how is PSA missing the re-coloring/glossing of these cards??? Are they even looking at these ??? Geez they're awful !!
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#377
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The stakeholders will fix it, patience.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#378
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#379
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I wonder if Auction Houses that sell cards now and to the future will refund if a buyer finds out about their card was altered based on information the Auction House could of researched prior to auction.. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 07-29-2019 at 08:51 AM. |
#380
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The only reason PWCC is giving refunds is that they are directly responsible for the current and past deception, and are acting upon the advice of their attorney. Otherwise, I doubt there would be any restitution for those who've been defrauded. |
#381
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Would Love to Find Out Who Submitted these Cards for the Doctor/Doctors..... who's invoices are these on....there are way more guys other than the one we have all be talking about...first things first...who is submitting the cards exposed as altered for whitman111??? We all seem to be targeting on PWCC and yes they're crummy.... doctors and PSA are also crummy.....Who is gonna roll who is gonna be the fall guy?? Will be interesting to see this unfold......Vintage Non Sport is the Only Thing Keeping me Going Last edited by Johnny630; 07-29-2019 at 10:02 AM. |
#382
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You would think the 4 months or whatever an auction house prepares for an auction they could do a little digging on a 50k card to see if it was altered and PSA made a mistake before using that card as marketing to bring more eyeballs to their auction for example |
#383
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If you mean for them to simply spot-check the published lists of suspected altered cards.... then yes, that would probably be doable. But if you mean for them to conduct the actual research (like the guys on BO are doing), then it will likely never happen. I suppose they could hire a staff person in charge of research, but the added cost of implementing the process would probably just result in higher Buyer and Seller Premiums. And isn't this what the TPAs are supposed to be doing, anyway? I know the current ones are failing badly, and if anyone is liable for recourse, it should be them. |
#384
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-29-2019 at 12:51 PM. |
#385
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Now come to think of it, that would be a good starting point!
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#386
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The same stakeholders who are going to fix the problem have been accepting them since day one. Many of them, that is.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-29-2019 at 12:56 PM. |
#387
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How many collectors have enough restraint to no longer do business with any major AH who knowingly accepts consignment cards from known doctors along with ceasing any Newport Beach Opinion Giver Submissions until accepting responsibility /coming up with a viable solution to prevent this from continuing to happen on this large scale. . They have all be complacent in allowing this S&&T to go on this long.
Is what I’m asking for to much for these AH’s ?? AH’s mean Ass Ho$les Last edited by Johnny630; 07-29-2019 at 02:34 PM. |
#388
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__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years." |
#389
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What auction houses knowingly accept consignments from card doctors outside of PWCC? I'm happy to no longer do business with them if I knew who they were.
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#390
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The lemmings are many in this hobby. |
#391
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At least one small-timer is waiting to see a resolution before sending cards to Newport Beach. I had a batch ready to go, but Orlando's statement made me weary. It's sitting in my cabinet, waiting until I'm confident the investment will be worth it.
I doubt I'm the only one. They don't care about tiny little chumps like me though. That much is clear. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk |
#392
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You’re correct I’ve been saying this for weeks......until this affects their bottom line there will be zero change.....that’s just my thinking on it.
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#393
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can be a list of $5000 and up cards that could be checked...only one click etc.. |
#394
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I haven't kept this thread current figuring people can follow Blowout if they care, but this one seemed worth posting. Someone please tell me this sort of "cleaning" is OK because I keep hearing there is no consensus.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5276
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#395
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I do not feel it is ok to use bleaching or other chemicals and I think it should be considered an alteration. I think it’s fine to use water or natural means to get dirt and removable stains off, but these chemicals are akin to repainting or recoloring- they create a new and unnatural layer of coloring or fundamentally alter the underlying color, so as to fundamentally alter the card.
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#396
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#397
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Push TGP’s Industry standards to change to avoid any liability or litigation.......what a bunch of cons....nothing they do or try to do shocks me anymore.
Last edited by Johnny630; 08-17-2019 at 08:35 AM. |
#398
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But I really think that staining is something else. Mostly because of the card shaped clean area on the back. The stains that didn't come out might be, which would lead me to think the de-staining material was a oil based solvent like mineral spirits. If it's from having been in a really acidic scrapbook, or envelope, it's possible that the deacidification products the pros (Like museums, not Moser?) use would whiten as they deacidify. If that's the case, then it's probably ok, but should still be disclosed, as that much acidity has already damaged the paper. If it's just bleached in a barely above amateur hour attempt at making it look better.... nope, not a good thing. |
#399
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In my opinion there is no way that card got so much whiter (look at the front) from water.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#400
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Yes, most probably not water.
I did a bit of looking up on how deacidification is done, and I have become convinced it's been bleached. I still feel a bit mixed about that. If it's done right, as in the way professionals do it with art, I think it won't do damage. The biggest problem is that there's no disclosure, especially of the method. And without that, here's no way to get a feel for the actual skill of who did it. |
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