Today's Wash. Post has major piece re the BB card fraud

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Every card that an 'outed' dealer/consignor has provided to PWCC is not a bad card. Some cards were cracked out and resubmitted; some had a corner pressed down. Not every card in a submission is bad when there is 1, 2 or even 10 bad ones in a submission.

As to who is providing info on bad cards, keep in mind that I don't represent every person who consigned to PWCC. With the government's help, with the help of the Blowout guys who did incredible work here, we're able to determine some of the bad cards. The government has sources who have provided them info about cards, some of that is shared with us and a discussion is had. I can tell you that we are erring on the side of giving refunds back. This is a fluid situation as I have said. It is not a perfect situation by any means, but it's a start.

I agree that the Blowout guys are doing great work - they're identifying victims. What steps is Brent taking to identifying additional victims?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I guess (not that Jeff can be expected to answer) my big question is whether or not PWCC is still trying to portray themselves as innocent victims of the card doctoring "community" or are they being upfront about the fact that they were in cahoots with them.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I guess (not that Jeff can be expected to answer) my big question is whether or not PWCC is still trying to portray themselves as innocent victims of the card doctoring "community" or are they being upfront about the fact that they were in cahoots with them.

It should be obvious based on my posts what our position is I'd hope.

Originally Posted by drcy

Though it is kind of funny if Brent said "Uh oh. I'm in such big trouble that I'd better get El Chapo's lawyer."

Though, obviously, Jeffrey has knowledge of this particular hobby, which it seems is what one would want for a lawyer on either side. You don't want to hire a lawyer who collects beanie babies or funky earrings-- totally different law. I'm sure Brent has also gone into this knowing that Jeffrey is a dog person ("Betsy, we can't chance it. Hide the cat! Oh, shoot, the closet's full. Call it Fido and maybe he won't notice.")

I recently befriended a neighborhood cat named Hobo and am pretty into him. We meet at night and in the morning during dog walks.

And as you guessed, I'm not exactly in need of baseball hobby cases with the stuff I'm doing now. But I'd rather deal with this stuff from the inside than to be on the outside, screaming my head off and not accomplishing anything.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I recently befriended a neighborhood cat named Hobo and am pretty into him. We meet at night and in the morning during dog walks.

I'm a dog person, but pet cats I meet on my walk home. Stay away from the raccoons.

[Beastmode]

Reading between the lines here Jeff, looks like a wedge is forthcoming between PSA and PWCC, with you being the hammer. Can we assume that PSA's warranty is worth sh**, or they told PWCC to pound sand since PWCC is now refunding buyers?

I would think part of your long term strategy is eventually recovering funds from the source of encapsulating altered cards, PSA.

[Johnny630]

What is going on at NEWPORT BEACH ?

THEIR SILENCE IS DEAFENING :-(

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Reading between the lines here Jeff, looks like a wedge is forthcoming between PSA and PWCC, with you being the hammer. Can we assume that PSA's warranty is worth sh**, or they told PWCC to pound sand since PWCC is now refunding buyers?

I would think part of your long term strategy is eventually recovering funds from the source of encapsulating altered cards, PSA.

Not that I am exactly in love with PSA in this scenario, but I do understand where they're coming from. PWCC and the card doctors set out to get one over on them, so they are forcing them to deal with it. I certainly don't think they should in turn be making the bad actors whole.

That being said my big problem with PSA is that they've done nothing but obfuscate and make non-statements. I wish that they'd come out and say, we were fooled by bad actors, we screwed up and we're working to identify and eliminate from the hobby the people that have undermined the hobby's confidence in general and in us specifically. We will also work to correct our internal issues which led to our part in allowing this to happen when it is anathema to our purpose as a company and a leader in the hobby.

OK getting off my soap box for now.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Not that I am exactly in love with PSA in this scenario, but I do understand where they're coming from. PWCC and the card doctors set out to get one over on them, so they are forcing them to deal with it. I certainly don't think they should in turn be making the bad actors whole.

That being said my big problem with PSA is that they've done nothing but obfuscate and make non-statements. I wish that they'd come out and say, we were fooled by bad actors, we screwed up and we're working to identify and eliminate from the hobby the people that have undermined the hobby's confidence in general and in us specifically. We will also work to correct our internal issues which led to our part in allowing this to happen when it is anathema to our purpose as a company and a leader in the hobby.

OK getting off my soap box for now.

Scott, your last paragraph, I'm in complete agreement with....its more then reasonable to want this to happen.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It should be obvious based on my posts what our position is I'd hope.

My question wasn't about YOUR position. I also didn't expect an answer from you simply because of attorney client privilege, not because I thought you'd be evasive.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I agree that the Blowout guys are doing great work - they're identifying victims. What steps is Brent taking to identifying additional victims?

If PWCC just released the complete list to the public of all Moser related cards that have gone through their auction house it would save the Blowout guys and all the buyers of these cards a whole lot of time and trouble. Is every buyer of every card in the history of PWCC auctions supposed to go over every card they ever purchased and try and do research to determine if they were defrauded??? That's ridiculous.

[Wite3]

Thanks Jeff for the info.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile

If PWCC just released the complete list to the public of all Moser related cards that have gone through their auction house it would save the Blowout guys and all the buyers of these cards a whole lot of time and trouble. Is every buyer of every card in the history of PWCC auctions supposed to go over every card they ever purchased and try and do research to determine if they were defrauded??? That's ridiculous.

I am quite sure it isn't just Gary. One piece of the puzzle only.

[drcy]

No fan of PSA and wouldn't mind seeing it go down due to their being unable to do their job. However, I understand and appreciate their sentiment that the card doctors and their knowing facilitators be the ones to take the financial punishment. They would be the criminals not PSA.

[Johnny630]

We will see a pull back correction from the recent outrageous prices of the last 4 years ? We’re those numbers even real ? Will anyone lose confidence in PSA graded cards ? All questions I ponder wondering if many people think the same.

P.T Barnum said it best, “There’s a sucker born every min”

The collector, as a whole, has swallowed the bait hook line and sinker.
This will be evident from the Newport Beach lines at the National.

PSA AH’s And Dealers a like have made millions off this whole ordeal........... most hardcore collectors know the issues and still buy, still submit, still try again and again for bumps, still consign....ect. I hope things get better........