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  #1  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:34 AM
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Default Today's Wash. Post has major piece re the BB card fraud

This relatively long piece appears on the front page of the Sports Section of today's Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.bb9619cc4209
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210-2, W504, & Queen City Cigar. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery of WaJo.
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:40 AM
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July 18th is today?
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NEED THE FOLLOWING 1952 topps

G TO VG-EX

(TONS TO TRADE, HIGHS LOWS, VARIATIONS, ERRORS)


322 jackson
328 borkowski
345 white
347 adcock
354 Hatfield
386 yuhas
399 frisley
403 miller
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
This relatively long piece appears on the front page of the Sports Section of today's Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.bb9619cc4209
I read this article somewhere earlier---Mosher is a Beauty
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  #4  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:44 AM
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this was posted days ago...there's a comment that says jeff lichtman is representing the huigens...I presume this is a joke!?
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  #5  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:48 AM
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I see that the reporter apparently wrote this piece on July 18th. However, it does appear in TODAY'S (July 22nd) Wash. Post. Sorry! As my wife frequently reminds me, "no good deed goes unpunished."
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Last edited by ValKehl; 07-22-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2019, 08:41 AM
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My local newspaper, Seattle Times, has some stories go online a couple of days before they appear in print.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
this was posted days ago...there's a comment that says jeff lichtman is representing the huigens...I presume this is a joke!?
he has the opportunity to post on this board if it isn't true, as other lawyers have done. if it is, there may be privilege/confidentiality issues. a number of knowledgeable people believe it is true, but i imagine things will become more clear over time. it would be nice if that could happen now.
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2019, 08:51 AM
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E-f$ckingads!!!
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
this was posted days ago...there's a comment that says jeff lichtman is representing the huigens...I presume this is a joke!?
you don't see him commenting here anymore do you? Probably not a joke.... other than on us, the collectors.

That Brent Mastro is SMART. Good luck on your case Calvindog!

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 07-22-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:46 AM
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you don't see him commenting here anymore do you? Probably not a joke.... other than on us, the collectors.

That Brent Mastro is SMART. Good luck on your case Calvindog!
So sad... The amount of scum in this hobby is inpenetrable!
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  #11  
Old 07-22-2019, 10:12 AM
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You will may never see a crazy Investor run up in this Industry again like we seen in 2015.....that ship has sailed....Big Money Investors donít like uncertainty.......how can they be confident in PSA Slabbed Cards

Idk time will tell.....PSA remaining silent is sickening although not unexpected
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2019, 10:13 AM
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this was posted days ago...there's a comment that says jeff lichtman is representing the huigens...I presume this is a joke!?
If he is his earlier posts are brilliant.
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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If he is his earlier posts are brilliant.
ya you'd think his posts on here could be problematic?

Last edited by ullmandds; 07-22-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:13 AM
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For the record, I am not a lawyer and am not representing PWCC.

"I noticed that you didn't say you are not representing Moser."

I like a little mystery. I also didn't say I'm not dating Charlize Theron.
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  #15  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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Can someone post the article for those of us who have expired our "Free Stories" at Washington Post?
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:22 AM
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July 22, the new groundhog day
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:26 AM
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Here is the comment:
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File Type: jpg Comment_WP.jpg (66.6 KB, 817 views)
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  #18  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:32 AM
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Being that he represents El Chapo, arguably the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world, for him representing Brent would be a step toward sainthood.

Last edited by Stonepony; 07-22-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Can someone post the article for those of us who have expired our "Free Stories" at Washington Post?
Net54 shouldn't be reprinting articles in threads.
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
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Net54 shouldn't be reprinting articles in threads.
Well....I would like to read it. That's alright....I think I got the gist of it without even reading it.
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  #21  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:01 PM
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Hard to stomach the irony of it all... This case will decide whether Brent's vision of "conservation" is deemed acceptable, and has the potential to adversely change the entire hobby as we know it. Yet it is one of us collectors who is leading this charge!

And he was the most vocal of anyone here when it came time to condemn Mastro/Allen for the same exact things that PWCC is doing (shilling, altering, trimming, deceiving, etc.)

Perhaps he will proudly wear this feather in his cap when PWCC is exonerated, and Brent's Tenets inevitably become the hobby norm.

This is beyond depressing, and further demonstrates that it truly is only about money.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:05 PM
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Hard to stomach the irony of it all... This case will decide whether Brent's vision of "conservation" is deemed acceptable, and has the potential to adversely change the entire hobby as we know it. Yet it is one of us collectors who is leading this charge!

And he was the most vocal of anyone here when it came time to condemn Mastro/Allen for the same exact things that PWCC is doing (shilling, altering, trimming, deceiving, etc.)

Perhaps he will proudly wear this feather in his cap when PWCC is exonerated, and Brent's Tenets inevitably become the hobby norm.

This is beyond depressing, and further demonstrates that it truly is only about money.
It's going to be very very difficult to prove.....so sad and agree this is beyond depressing.....it's a business/industry...............not a HOBBY.
Has not been a hobby for many for years.......sad but we all have known this for years...The Industry is the Wild Wild West filled with whatever kinda business you wanna call it.....thinking any differently has been proven to be naive.

Last edited by Johnny630; 07-22-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:45 PM
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This board has a riot mentality. I am kind of surprised that one random comment can spur this much excitement without any facts. Unless I am missing something - is nimble tortoise a reputable source?

We should probably hold off on judging until there are concrete facts.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardpete View Post
This board has a riot mentality. I am kind of surprised that one random comment can spur this much excitement without any facts. Unless I am missing something - is nimble tortoise a reputable source?

We should probably hold off on judging until there are concrete facts.
I agree with you. Plus he wrote "according to hobby scuttlebutt," so it's only a rumor.
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:59 PM
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Hobby Scuttlebutt is a great user id for this or any related board.
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardpete View Post
This board has a riot mentality. I am kind of surprised that one random comment can spur this much excitement without any facts. Unless I am missing something - is nimble tortoise a reputable source?

We should probably hold off on judging until there are concrete facts.
It's been widely speculated and extensively discussed elsewhere.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:54 PM
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I'm sure we will get an answer soon...
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File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (60.5 KB, 701 views)
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:57 PM
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I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't Brent have to get charged first? If he hasn't been charged with any crime yet, then why would he hire a criminal lawyer?
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Can someone post the article for those of us who have expired our "Free Stories" at Washington Post?
Incognito mode is your friend.
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  #30  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:00 PM
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I'm I the only one on this board that places a lot of fault on PSA in regards to all this mess???

Not Criminal....Making a Lot of Mistakes by not catching Obvious Alterations which according to their grading requirements are not supposed to get a number grade in holder.

What is PSA's purpose in the industry ????

Last edited by Johnny630; 07-22-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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  #31  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:37 PM
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I'm sure we will get an answer soon...
If he is taking this long I hope he is hitting the preview button so he doesn't lose his reply and have to start over.
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  #32  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:41 PM
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if he is taking this long i hope he is hitting the preview button so he doesn't lose his reply and have to start over.
lol
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  #33  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:45 PM
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lol
All I care about is if there are gift baskets or not.

For the right gift basket i could be all for card restoration as the new thing.
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  #34  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:47 PM
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I hate to do anything that might stop endless speculation and attacks, but I figured I should post anyway. Yes, I'm representing Brent in this investigation and yes, this is after I bashed him for years on Net 54. And no, I'm not suggesting that I'm representing him because every person deserves assistance of counsel in all criminal cases and investigations as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment, even though they do. No, I'm not doing it for the money (my baseball card hobby-related income is about 1% of my total income over the last ten years).

I have represented dozens of people in the hobby, some civilly and some in connection with criminal cases and investigations. I represented numerous witnesses against Mastro and Allen, et al. and against others accused of fraud. In each and every representation I have cooperated the client with FBI, helped them in their prosecutions against others and assisted them in non-public ways. Since I began representing Brent, he has been cooperating with the FBI, has reached out to people who purchased altered cards from PWCC and refunded money, and is providing all documentation from his dealings with any and all hobby dealers/consignors. Unlike in Mastro where those defendants destroyed records, "cooperated" minimally and refused to pay back a single dollar of restitution to their victims, I'm actually accomplishing more with Brent to assist the government in getting victims paid back and to stop the fraud. This is why I decided to take the case, after consulting with the FBI. In addition, Brent (and other dealers) have agreed to put money into a restitution fund to refund money to people who purchased altered cards years ago, well past the statute of limitations time period, even though they are not required to do so by law. As a collector, I am less concerned with why clients decide to assist the government than with the actual impact of their cooperation. And yes, I have represented people who have cooperated with the government in connection with the hobby and still have gone to prison.

If anyone doubts that what I am doing with Brent and other hobbyists who I have represented is a net positive, I'd invite you to call the FBI agent who has run all of these cases and investigations and ask him if he is happy that I am representing Brent. And if it's good enough for the FBI agent who is helping to prosecute these cases, I'd hope that it would be good enough for you. If not, it won't be the first time someone was unhappy with who I am representing. But helping to put Mastro et al. in jail didn't accomplish enough to stop fraud and make fraud victims whole; in this way, at least something positive is being done.

Last edited by calvindog; 07-22-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:50 PM
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Default Seems Improbable

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardpete View Post
This board has a riot mentality. I am kind of surprised that one random comment can spur this much excitement without any facts. Unless I am missing something - is nimble tortoise a reputable source?

We should probably hold off on judging until there are concrete facts.
That Attorney Lichtman would hitch his wagon to Brentsie and Betsie. He has demonstrated, over the years, that he is a serious collector with nice "Stuff". He could well be a victim of the antics PWCC is being accused of. Even if he was approached by those two I believe that every attorney has the option of saying "No Thanks"......or in this case "Your joking ...right?" I will ad that the only contact I have ever had with him was visiting his Gallery....Nice "Stuff".
While every defendant is entitled to a competent representation I will be shocked and dismayed if a notable board member fills that role.
Dennis O'Brien in Wisconsin
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  #36  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
I see that the reporter apparently wrote this piece on July 18th. However, it does appear in TODAY'S (July 22nd) Wash. Post. Sorry! As my wife frequently reminds me, "no good deed goes unpunished."
To the OP for letting every board member get wind of this. They want me to remove my ad blocker to read the article. But I can see a nice photo shot of one of the up and coming hobby participants. Sad it is that that young man is facing this kind of "Welcome to the hobby" message. How can I read the full piece?
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  #37  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:08 PM
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By removing your ad blocker?
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210-2, W504, & Queen City Cigar. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery of WaJo.
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  #38  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
I hate to do anything that might stop endless speculation and attacks, but I figured I should post anyway. Yes, I'm representing Brent in this investigation and yes, this is after I bashed him for years on Net 54. And no, I'm not suggesting that I'm representing him because every person deserves assistance of counsel in all criminal cases and investigations as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment, even though they do. No, I'm not doing it for the money (my baseball card hobby-related income is about 1% of my total income over the last ten years).

I have represented dozens of people in the hobby, some civilly and some in connection with criminal cases and investigations. I represented numerous witnesses against Mastro and Allen, et al. and against others accused of fraud. In each and every representation I have cooperated the client with FBI, helped them in their prosecutions against others and assisted them in non-public ways. Since I began representing Brent, he has been cooperating with the FBI, has reached out to people who purchased altered cards from PWCC and refunded money, and is providing all documentation from his dealings with any and all hobby dealers/consignors. Unlike in Mastro where those defendants destroyed records, "cooperated" minimally and refused to pay back a single dollar of restitution to their victims, I'm actually accomplishing more with Brent to assist the government in getting victims paid back and to stop the fraud. This is why I decided to take the case, after consulting with the FBI. In addition, Brent (and other dealers) have agreed to put money into a restitution fund to refund money to people who purchased altered cards years ago, well past the statute of limitations time period, even though they are not required to do so by law. As a collector, I am less concerned with why clients decide to assist the government than with the actual impact of their cooperation. And yes, I have represented people who have cooperated with the government in connection with the hobby and still have gone to prison.

If anyone doubts that what I am doing with Brent and other hobbyists who I have represented is a net positive, I'd invite you to call the FBI agent who has run all of these cases and investigations and ask him if he is happy that I am representing Brent. And if it's good enough for the FBI agent who is helping to prosecute these cases, I'd hope that it would be good enough for you. If not, it won't be the first time someone was unhappy with who I am representing. But helping to put Mastro et al. in jail didn't accomplish enough to stop fraud and make fraud victims whole; in this way, at least something positive is being done.
Interesting.

Would you be able to shed light on the other dealers contributing to this fund and whether PSA has been helpful in the investigation?
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  #39  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jhs5120 View Post
Interesting.

Would you be able to shed light on the other dealers contributing to this fund and whether PSA has been helpful in the investigation?
From what Iíve seen thus far, all the dealers who consigned altered cards are paying back buyers through PWCC. If there is any dispute as to whether a card deserves a refund, Brent is paying the money back himself. As for PSA, they are not being as helpful.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
From what I’ve seen thus far, all the dealers who consigned altered cards are paying back buyers through PWCC. If there is any dispute as to whether a card deserves a refund, Brent is paying the money back himself. As for PSA, they are not being as helpful.
How far back and to what degree have buyers been notified? For example, if Dealer X (who has been discovered as a potential card doctor) has consigned 5,000 cards since 2012 through PWCC, have the buyers for all 5,000 cards been notified? Or is it above a threshold? I'm mostly just curious how this has been decided.

Last edited by jhs5120; 07-22-2019 at 03:33 PM.
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  #41  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jhs5120 View Post
How far back and to what degree have buyers been notified? For example, if Dealer X (who has been discovered as a potential card doctor) has consigned 5,000 cards since 2012 through PWCC, have the buyers for all 5,000 cards been notified? Or is it above a threshold? I'm mostly just curious how this has been decided.
^^This^^ and what is happening with all these altered cards?
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  #42  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post

Unlike in Mastro where those defendants destroyed records, "cooperated" minimally and refused to pay back a single dollar of restitution to their victims, I'm actually accomplishing more with Brent to assist the government in getting victims paid back and to stop the fraud. This is why I decided to take the case, after consulting with the FBI.
Then what is being done about Gary Moser? It appears that majority of the outed cards on BO were worked on by him.
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  #43  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:37 PM
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calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
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^^This^^ and what is happening with all these altered cards?
Iím driving and donít have the info at hand re how far back. As for the retuned, altered cards they are being given to the FBI. Obviously my concern was the cards being put into A holders, cracked out and resubmitted. And PSA giving them grades of 11.
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  #44  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:40 PM
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Ben North
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Iím driving and donít have the info at hand re how far back. As for the retuned, altered cards they are being given to the FBI. Obviously my concern was the cards being put into A holders, cracked out and resubmitted. And PSA giving them grades of 11.
Hole punch and then put into a Authentic slab.
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  #45  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:42 PM
jad22 jad22 is offline
Joe D
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From what Iíve seen thus far, all the dealers who consigned altered cards are paying back buyers through PWCC. If there is any dispute as to whether a card deserves a refund, Brent is paying the money back himself. As for PSA, they are not being as helpful.
Not living up to the ďPSA guaranteeĒ? Shocking.
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  #46  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:43 PM
wondo wondo is offline
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Iím driving and donít have the info at hand re how far back. As for the retuned, altered cards they are being given to the FBI. Obviously my concern was the cards being put into A holders, cracked out and resubmitted. And PSA giving them grades of 11.
Nice deflection, counselor!
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  #47  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:46 PM
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Jeffrey Lichtman
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Nice deflection, counselor!
Sorry Iím driving in a blinding thunderstorm in NY. And I donít work for you. Iím ok not to provide any more info on these issues too if you think itís not helpful.
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  #48  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:48 PM
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Ben North
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Sorry Iím driving in a blinding thunderstorm in NY. And I donít work for you. Iím ok not to provide any more info on these issues too if you think itís not helpful.
Then get off you damn phone and pay attention to the road.
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  #49  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:48 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Iím driving and donít have the info at hand re how far back. As for the retuned, altered cards they are being given to the FBI. Obviously my concern was the cards being put into A holders, cracked out and resubmitted. And PSA giving them grades of 11.
It's really sad.... I guess when you're paying for a OPINION that OPINION is subjective and can't tied to any laws or held accountable...
their silence in taking any kinda of responsibility hits home to me :-(
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  #50  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:48 PM
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Jason S!m@nds
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
I’m driving and don’t have the info at hand re how far back. As for the retuned, altered cards they are being given to the FBI. Obviously my concern was the cards being put into A holders, cracked out and resubmitted. And PSA giving them grades of 11.
Drive safely. When you have a moment, I am curious as to how far back and to what extent victims are being notified.

On a side note, is PSA requesting possession of the cards in exchange for reimbursement? I'd imagine that would be a significant sticking point for them. Some of these cards still have significant value (for obvious reasons) as a PSA Authentic.

Also, have you had any dealings with SGC so far? How helpful have they been?

Last edited by jhs5120; 07-22-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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