Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's fine to talk about a trade association but who's going to do the actual work to put one together, draw up the charter, recruit collectors, convince dealers to join, get funding, etc.?

The other problem is we (not singling anyone out) as a group continue to do business with the bad actors, because we can't resist stuff, or money, or whatever. So there is effectively no private enforcement mechanism against bad behavior.

There's the key. Our inability to say no. This is what they rely and trade on. Not really much different than a junkie in a lot of ways. Yeah, ok, make a chump outta me but I got the card I "needed."
It's going to take more than keyboard indignation to effect any change.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

There's the key. Our inability to say no. This is what they rely and trade on. Not really much different than a junkie in a lot of ways. Yeah, ok, make a chump outta me but I got the card I "needed."
It's going to take more than keyboard indignation to effect any change.

Might be easier to say "no" when you have doubts about the "stuff"

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Might be easier to say "no" when you have doubts about the "stuff"

Well you would think wouldn't you - the past would tell me not to look for much to change.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What I'm finding infuriating is not just the perpetrators but the people who continue to either defend them, downplay the situation, or look the other way.

There. I feel better. Well, not really.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What I'm finding infuriating is not just the perpetrators but the people who continue to either defend them, downplay the situation, or look the other way.

There. I feel better. Well, not really.

It's not that uncommon to find people's behavior/attitude fall in line with their self-interest is it counselor?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It's not that uncommon to find people's behavior/attitude fall in line with their self-interest is it counselor?

Indeed not. The capacity to rationalize is pretty universal.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What I'm finding infuriating is not just the perpetrators but the people who continue to either defend them, downplay the situation, or look the other way.

There. I feel better. Well, not really.

LOL! You mean the same way you do with PSA? We've already determined that PSA is either complicit or incompetent. It's one of the two. Either way, why would you choose to continue to do business with them?

Why don't you lead the charge? Let's start an online petition - a new thread - and everyone that's willing to stand up and stop doing business with PWCC and PSA sign their name to the thread. Lead by example, Peter. Or is it too easy to point the finger at PWCC while turning a blind eye to PSA?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Might be easier to say "no" when you have doubts about the "stuff"

Unfortunately not true. Many people have said they do not care what has happened to the card as long as it is in the slab.

The PSA slab is magic don't you know. It increases the value and magically makes the card whatever the flip says it is.

[x2drich2000]

Bobby, Just kind of thinking out loud since you own a platform that may be able to help collectors but does your software capture the cert number? If so, can you flag those certs that have been identified as being trimmed/enhanced/whatever else you want to call them? By doing so, that will flag those cards as being suspect and future buyers would know they might not be appropriately graded (at least until they are cracked out and resubmitted).

DJ

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Bobby, Just kind of thinking out loud since you own a platform that may be able to help collectors but does your software capture the cert number? If so, can you flag those certs that have been identified as being trimmed/enhanced/whatever else you want to call them? By doing so, that will flag those cards as being suspect and future buyers would know they might not be appropriately graded (at least until they are cracked out and resubmitted).

DJ

No we do not have anything that captures the cert. And we do not use any type of facial recognition software in our system to implement something that could.

[brad31]

I find it difficult to understand after the write-up that states “This comes from a raw collection which we’ve had the pleasure of brokering pieces over the years” people are exonerating PWCC. This card was purchased by Moser. If that is the raw collection from which it came, PWCC had reason to believe it was altered and decided to have it graded anyway. Up until this one - I was open to the idea PWCC was consigned bad graded cards and unwittingly selling them.

The ire towards PWCC over PSA is this knowledge. PSA missed alterations and slabbed bad cards. However I do not think they were knowingly working with a card doctor to do so.

I hope someone with an altered card come forward and seeks restitution. PSA has their guarantee - I hope to see evidence they honor it on one or more of these cards unless PWCC does the right thing and refunds their customer. Either way if someone comes forward and is not made whole - then the attention will shift to PSA.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Unfortunately not true. Many people have said they do not care what has happened to the card as long as it is in the slab.

The PSA slab is magic don't you know. It increases the value and magically makes the card whatever the flip says it is.

That's precisely why PSA is the greater evil here...

Once those cards are slabbed, they can re-appear anywhere. Even if PWCC is eventually disbanded, the PSA cards are still out there in mass quantities. The "blind faith" in PSA is what drives the corruption, and has forever called their product into question.

It's not like Chipotle, who suffered a temporary setback with the tainted food scandal. Bad food can be destroyed and is then gone forever. So eventually all is forgotten. NOT the case here, however... we will never truly know how deep the PSA infection runs, or how many tainted cards continue to reside in collections, will be traded, have already been traded, and eventually will be passed down.

It's not pleasant, and is not what people want to hear (given their personal stake in PSA Graded Cards). But unfortunately what we've seen this past month is the perverbial the tip of the iceberg.