Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[mattjc1983]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know vouches for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

What is the purpose of asking for friends and family? If the buyer asks to pay friends and family as part of getting a lower price from a seller, that's one thing, but it does seem strange when a seller requests it. I'm sure the seller is just trying to get the best price he can but it can be construed as trying to remove protections for the buyer.

The better (and less shady approach) that I see and like is to say "This is what I want to get out of the card so this is the PP F&F price, but you are of course welcome to pay G&S if you cover the fees."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leon]

I did.

Originally Posted by orly57

Please see the ENTIRE FIRST PARAGRAPH of my initial post.

[HRBAKER]

Well the answer is FREE and easy access to the buyer's payment.
Obviously the way this has played out I would guess they are neither friends or family at this point.

[Paul S]

Another answer is to not have to declare it as income.

[Bored5000]

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

That is why I said you should get a refund. But a true "3" is not a $250 card. That pretty much means looking to get over on someone to me.

The seller misrepresented the condition, and you should get a refund because of that; the price you paid wasn't 30 percent under VCP. Not to be flippant, but a 30 percent discount off of VCP falls into the "If something looks too good to be true..." category, IMO.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

The right thing to do is issue a refund. No questions asked. Although it is caveat emptor here, this board is extremely successful because all of us can buy and sell things KNOWING that there is an unwritten code of honor that the deal will go thru and all parties will be happy.

I read through the eleven pages thus far, and I find myself agreeing with your assessment. We all occasionally slip up and make mistakes, professionally and day-to-day. I flubbed up my first transaction on this board--however, I apologized and tried my best to make things right with the seller. While the transaction didn't go as we both had originally planned, we moved on and we both continue on N54 as businessmen and fellow collectors to this day.
This is why I feel this transaction didn't go through and left a bad taste in many mouths--neither the buyer nor the seller provided any "give"; it was all "take". While this can show what collecting is like to some people in the real world, it isn't an accurate representation of N54, which, from my experience, has been a board where the majority of collectors try to make deals which leave both parties as winners.

-NJ Dunkin

[bobbyw8469]

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

Tim B
Banned

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 126
Default Enjoy it - this will be my only post



The transaction was doomed in a lot of ways. We have a buyer thats part of the 'im quitting the net54 board' club dealing with a 'this is my last post on net54' club........those are two clubs that shouldnt be trading cards....like the Sharks and the Jets..


P.S. "Im leaving the hobby club' could also be tough club to trade with especially (not saying all but a red flag) when they havent left the hobby and continue to be very very active....and there is also the 'i dont care if i am banned by saying...." club as well.

[dclarkraiders]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

+1

[timzcardz]

I don't see the problem.

Why doesn't he ultimately trade it up for a "3"?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

I don't see the problem.

Why doesn't he ultimately trade it up for a "3"?

Yes....I laughed

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I'm confused. Should I have not said anything and let it go? Then have him rip someone else off? Someone else already showed a nasty message he left them. I was upset and trying to protect others at the same time. Now I'm getting crucified. In my heart I know I did the right thing.

[Stonepony]

I say we all move on

[JollyElm]

For what it's worth, in my mind this Stephen guy is nothing more than Adrian 2.0.

And perhaps he should just send the '56 Mantle to PWCC. Not only will it miraculously become a 3, it'll end up in a 7 slab.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

For what it's worth, in my mind this Stephen guy is nothing more than Adrian 2.0.

And perhaps he should just send the '56 Mantle to PWCC. Not only will it miraculously become a 3, it'll end up in a 7 slab.

Or sell it to Battlefield. She could really photoshop it, and we can discuss it here once a month when she continually resells it.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Leon

Tim has PM'd, asked for his account to be deleted, and said he isn't going to refund any money to Stephen. Here is my response....

Hi Tim
We don't delete accounts generally speaking.
That being said I will honor your wish and you have been banned. It was definitely your choice. Happy collecting,
LL

.

It's hard to believe that someone's reputation means so little to them that they would do this over a couple hundred dollars.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Sean

It's hard to believe that someone's reputation means so little to them that they would do this over a couple hundred dollars.

When your wife says she has to get the kitchen redone . . . well, we've all been there . . . .

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

When your wife says she has to get the kitchen redone . . . well, we've all been there . . . .

I've never been married, so maybe that's why I have trouble understanding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

For what it's worth, in my mind this Stephen guy is nothing more than Adrian 2.0.

And perhaps he should just send the '56 Mantle to PWCC. Not only will it miraculously become a 3, it'll end up in a 7 slab.

LOL. Good one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Sean

It's hard to believe that someone's reputation means so little to them that they would do this over a couple hundred dollars.

Not even as he would have had the card back and it obviously has some value, being a Mantle. Loser.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

When your wife says she has to get the kitchen redone . . . well, we've all been there . . . .

LOL, that is so true. I have learned 2 things from 19 years of marriage. 1) If she asks you to do something, 99.99% of the time it is easiest to shut up and do it. 2) It is way easier to get forgiven than permission.

[HRBAKER]

Kitchens are expensive but it's cheaper to keep her.

[Republicaninmass]

He said he wanted to pay a "2" price initially


Vcp psa 2 average 273
Less grading, and less ebay pp fees and you only paid 250?

Just cause "it ain't a three" you still paid for a 2 as you requested and was obviously how you felt it would grade


Edited to add below:



"Message #2

(I do not have a sent mailbox set up apparently) so it went something like...

I am offering you a price based on a 2 not a 3"

[swarmee]

But you never offer full VCP for a raw card. I normally don't even pay half on raw cards based on what I expect them to grade. I know you're nitpicking Stephen, but for a raw Mantle with creases, I would have never paid that much. But then, I have no problem waiting for the right cards/prices to come around.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by swarmee

But you never offer full VCP for a raw card. I normally don't even pay half on raw cards based on what I expect them to grade. I know you're nitpicking Stephen, but for a raw Mantle with creases, I would have never paid that much. But then, I have no problem waiting for the right cards/prices to come around.

On the other side of the cpin, If you are trying to make a few bucks, you have to take risks and strike quickly

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. Good one.

The Ultimate throw up.....Will this please go away, what a freaking joke....

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

On the other side of the cpin, If you are trying to make a few bucks, you have to take risks and strike quickly

Yeah, I lost $100 on a Johnny Manziel card once. That loser... ;-)
The dead guys can't disappoint you by being cut by Browns, at least.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

When your wife says she has to get the kitchen redone . . . well, we've all been there . . . .

Well he lost an avenue to sell cards to get the kitchen redone....but for $250...maybe he is upgrading paper mache...to cardboard....at least its an upgrade and will remind him of the cardboard he sold

[frankbmd]

Please retitle thread

"ADRIAN vs ADRIAN"

(rated VG 1(-)3)

featuring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MNANgFCYpk

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

Yes but the idea is that the board should live up to a higher standard of customer service, friendliness, support, whatever you want to call it.

Clearly from Tim's listings and his response to another potential buyer, he was someone coming in to make a hit and run. Unfortunately he did just that, and the people most vulnerable to a situation like that are guys like Stephen, with a few bucks, a little knowledge, and a huge desire to get ahead.

This was absolutely NOT a case of an innocent mistake by a seller, but a calculated attempt to defraud, or at least "beat" any number of potential buyers. He came on as a complete newb to the board and posted a ton of ads immediately.

Coincidentally, one of the reasons I try and see the good in Stephen is I made at least one deal with him before his foray into more atteniton-grabbing posts. It was a good deal for both of us on a tough item. I'm no rookie, though I haven't been on n54 long, there is very little chance of someone rooking me, and even less chance of me dealing with a person who even gives me the impression of TRYING to get over on me. I came out ahead on the item, He feels he did great on it too I'm sure. But the main impression he gave me is one of enthusiasm. If he could hang out on here long enough and read widely enough those dewy spots behind his ears should dry quite nicely. as for the attention thing...

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Yes but the idea is that the board should live up to a higher standard of customer service, friendliness, support, whatever you want to call it.

Clearly from Tim's listings and his response to another potential buyer, he was someone coming in to make a hit and run. Unfortunately he did just that, and the people most vulnerable to a situation like that are guys like Stephen, with a few bucks, a little knowledge, and a huge desire to get ahead.

This was absolutely NOT a case of an innocent mistake by a seller, but a calculated attempt to defraud, or at least "beat" any number of potential buyers. He came on as a complete newb to the board and posted a ton of ads immediately.

Coincidentally, one of the reasons I try and see the good in Stephen is I made at least one deal with him before his foray into more atteniton-grabbing posts. It was a good deal for both of us on a tough item. I'm no rookie, though I haven't been on n54 long, there is very little chance of someone rooking me, and even less chance of me dealing with a person who even gives me the impression of TRYING to get over on me. I came out ahead on the item, He feels he did great on it too I'm sure. But the main impression he gave me is one of enthusiasm. If he could hang out on here long enough and read widely enough those dewy spots behind his ears should dry quite nicely. as for the attention thing...

Hi there Scott,
While I agree with a lot of what you said... The seller didn't PERSUE Stephen right? He didn't force the sale. You can agree to that, no?
Stephen made an offer, and BOTH accepted? Correct? Where's the personal responsibility of the buyer??
You said "this board should live up to a higher standard"... but for just the seller?? Or both the seller AND buyer? If what you said is true and you believe it.... Stephen's "higher standard" would be accepting he made a bad judgment call.
Apparently, you seem to think it only goes one way....
I could be wrong, and if I am, I apologize, but that seems to be what your post says.
And we agree that Stephen's enthusiasm is a positive trait for both himself, and the hobby.
I wish both parties could rectify this situation amicably, maybe a partial refund would be fair?
But that's up to them.

Regards,
Brent

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'm a bit of a pain in the ass. I tend to hold others to the same standards to which I adhere. In this instance we had one honest person and one dishonest person. If I am party to a dispute, and I have been, so long as the person I am dealing with is being honest, they get satisfaction. I gave a partial refund that I imagine many would have denied, or maybe granted grudgingly. My trading partner was courteous, yes, but more importantly he wasn't dishonest. If Tim had not set out to defraud, he was certainly trying to tread the line as finely as possible. To my way of thinking, yes, that relieves Stephen of a large portion of the concomitant culpability. I fail to see anything dishonest in what Stephen did. In fact he seems to get a lot of flack for his naive honesty! While I don't comport myself in the manner of either of the parties involved, I do feel that only one was unethical.

[orly57]

Alas Brent, that ship has sailed. Tim has since been banished. He will be at Home Depot early tomorrow morning, searching for a $250 backsplash for the new kitchen.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Please retitle thread

"ADRIAN vs ADRIAN"

(rated VG 1(-)3)

featuring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MNANgFCYpk

Hey there Frank,

Does Feel Like it's RainiN LUCKY CHARMS iN Here

""" BCD deals wit PETER CHAO """

Honestly, wit ALL that's happened in the past week...
Has Any of the 2 Party's(And I Do mean Party's, These 2 have their own Disco goin on in their heads) Been Vetted Yet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Abb.ondandolo , I Kinda Like You...
And I Loved Peter Chao

Only, if You Gave me "4 Hours OR ELSE"(And I'm Guessin I'm Not the Only 1)
if I Got the Message in Time?,
I'd Still Feel Like Flippin a Coin...
(We Can't Just Assume "LIFE" Didn't Just Show uP
& Yank'd us Away from the Putar...)

Howevar, I Still would of Refunded Your Money,
Hopfeully Before You Trash'd me

"RESPECT!"

FOR THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE ME, TO THOSE WHO HAVE FOLLOW'D

~ DOESN'T HURT TA ASK QUSTION'S... Before You Purchase !!! ~

"I Still Come Here to Learn!"

[bobbyw8469]

Someone else said it and I agree. Stephen paid what, $250 for a card with a VCP of $275? Not the gold mine he is looking for, but accept the lesson learned, get the card graded, sell it and move on. You might lose a little juice, but you learned a valuable lesson.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Someone else said it and I agree. Stephen paid what, $250 for a card with a VCP of $275? Not the gold mine he is looking for, but accept the lesson learned, get the card graded, sell it and move on. You might lose a little juice, but you learned a valuable lesson.

WE have also learned that if EYECOLLECT is unhappy about a transaction, he will post very quickly a negative post about the seller. I would wait at least a few days of being ignored or trying to hash it out before making a thread on net54 about my bad experience. Just because you put in your thread 'i dont want to attack anyone' doesnt mean you are not in fact doing it.

I agree that both sides should be held to a net54 standard. I wonder why someone would not just return the $250 but I wonder if a few days passed and people maybe got over their emotions a return may of been made. Probably not but at least i would hope most buyers would give a few days and not start making threads/threats the same day etc..

[Bpm0014]

Bottom line is someone bought a card, the listing was less than honest, the buyer was unhappy with it, asked for a refund, and was told to forget it.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

WE have also learned that if EYECOLLECT is unhappy about a transaction, he will post very quickly a negative post about the seller. I would wait at least a few days of being ignored or trying to hash it out before making a thread on net54 about my bad experience. Just because you put in your thread 'i dont want to attack anyone' doesnt mean you are not in fact doing it.

I agree that both sides should be held to a net54 standard. I wonder why someone would not just return the $250 but I wonder if a few days passed and people maybe got over their emotions a return may of been made. Probably not but at least i would hope most buyers would give a few days and not start making threads/threats the same day etc..

What you do not understand is this..

I contacted him a few times about other cards prior to this deal. He ALWAYS got back to me within 5-10 minutes meaning he gets emails to his phone. Then when I messaged him the first time asking for a refund he answered me within 5 minutes. Now all the sudden he doesn't have a chance to check his messages? I sent him 4 messages in total. Only one was answered AND he admits to reading my deadline message within the time period. I also waited an extra 2 hours and sent 2 messages to this guy. I'm not dumb. He was clearly ignoring me.

Then again with Jeff the sun could be out and he would tell me it's not. Why are you always like that? I agree I could have possibly handled things differently (not buying the card).


Also, I want to clear the air with the people saying I was looking to strike gold. Is a $50-$75 profit striking gold for laying out $250? VCP has this card "Graded" at $355. I was planning on buying this card and selling it raw for $275 maybe $300 (hence my offer of $200). I came up to $250 after speaking to him and him leading me to believe this card was in fact VG. I don't get how I was looking to take advantage? Should I look to make no money? He's asking $300 I offered $200. I have received a lot worse offers from some big names on here.

One example would be my Ferguson Bakery Pennant of Joe Jackson SGC A

This is a $800-1000 pennant all day. (sold for $900)

I threw it up for sale and received offers on here of $300 $350 $400 and these are from people whom are active reputable people on the site. Those offers are going for my throat lol

Why am I being ridiculed for being straight up with the guy with my intentions from the first message, looking to make a "Few" dollars, being unhappy with the quality, and asking for a refund? Then coming on here protecting the community from someone whom was CLEARLY out to get as many people as possible.

I apologize if I seem too enthusiastic and sometimes jump into things quickly, but that is me and I am probably never going to change as that is how I was born. Heck, It's gotten me pretty far in life and when I hone it right sometimes is a way better quality than not haha.

My intentions were not malicious and never are. I would never lie steal cheat or rob from anyone (not just board members). I am 32 and can honestly say from the bottom of my heart I have never stolen anything in my life..

ok one time at Golf Smith when I was 7 I walked out with a bag of tees and in the car my dad asked me how I got them and I said the store. Once he explained to me about stealing I cried and brought them back in haha.

Anyways, sorry for the long winded post. I am really one of the good guys.

There are definitely tons of different personalities on this board. Like anything in life. When you deal with the general public, you will have your Good Guys, Your Bad Guys, Your Tough Guys, Your Mother Theresa's, Your Crooks, Your Douche Bags, Your skeptics, Your Immature people and your Weirdos.

If you can not identify yourself with one of those, you're probably the Douche Bag.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

ok one time at Golf Smith when I was 7 I walked out with a bag of tees and in the car my dad asked me how I got them and I said the store. Once he explained to me about stealing I cried and brought them back in haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp9sEMEeTtc

[KingFisk]

If Net54 were a sitcom and all the members characters, Stephen would be the one who gets the TV Guide cover. And I mean that as a compliment.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Zact]

I feel its an unfortunate situation for both parties involved.
IMO hobbyists involved in BST transactions with cards should all have a clear method of displaying and transmitting images of the items. I.e. spend $80 for a flat bed scanner - and use it - a 400-600 dpi scan of the front and back with comments on any surface issues which may not be apparent on the scan. I may be stating the obvious, but all too often I see poor images from individuals attempting to BST sports cards- this is mostly on ebay, social media, and message boards. The "high end boards" such as net54 and CU tend to have much less of this going on. I saw the FS posts with regards to the individual in question and just passed on by- the images are horrible- either trying to hide something or are too lazy to figure out a way to take clear images. Maybe we should have some kind of minimum standard or set of guidelines in the BST sections with regards to displaying items for sale. Probably would be a pain for the moderators to monitor -but may be worth it in the long run.

[cammb]

I think the seller described the card perfectly. Because he suggested that it might be a 3 doesn't make it so. When he states that there are two creases on the card, that tells you that a 3 it is not. How many times have you sent in a card to be graded and it comes back not only a grade lower than you expected but two grades lower!!. This is buyers remorse and nothing else, IMO.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Bottom line is someone bought a card, the listing was less than honest, the buyer was unhappy with it, asked for a refund, and was told to forget it.

How was the listing less than honest?? The card had creases, and the creases were mentioned. Seller said the card MIGHT '3'. I've seen some pretty bad 3's, so I can see why he would think that. The card will more likely '2'....I think both sides made errors.....

[bobbyw8469]

I'm not gonna rehash with you Steven the technicalities of "striking gold". You got a 1956 Mantle for $250. It's an iconic card, as long as it is real. The scan he showed had the card in pretty decent shape. You paid a PSA 2 price and got a raw card that will more than likely grade a PSA 2. Not the "trade up" you envisioned, but still a Mantle card......Like someone else said, it was a seller trying to take advantage and a buyer trying to take advantage. Bad combination, IMHO.

[Republicaninmass]

:There are definitely tons of different personalities on this board. Like anything in life. When you deal with the general public, you will have your Good Guys, Your Bad Guys, Your Tough Guys, Your Mother Theresa's, Your Crooks, Your Douche Bags, Your skeptics, Your Immature people and your Weirdos.

If you can not identify yourself with one of those, you're probably the Douche Bag."



...But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain... and an athlete... a basket case... a princess... and a criminal. Does that answer your question? Sincerely yours, the Breakfast Club

[Snapolit1]

Sure everyone on this board has made a transaction and looked back on it with regret. Maybe think the seller was less than forthcoming. Comes with the territory. Write the seller off and move on. No need to make a federal case out of it as they say.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

:There are definitely tons of different personalities on this board. Like anything in life. When you deal with the general public, you will have your Good Guys, Your Bad Guys, Your Tough Guys, Your Mother Theresa's, Your Crooks, Your Douche Bags, Your skeptics, Your Immature people and your Weirdos.

If you can not identify yourself with one of those, you're probably the Douche Bag."



...But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain... and an athlete... a basket case... a princess... and a criminal. Does that answer your question? Sincerely yours, the Breakfast Club

Roflmfao!!!!