Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[kailes2872]

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Kevin, you could not tell it was poor from his photo. The photo you are referring to is what I took. That is where you can see how bad it actually is.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Agree 100%. Saw this after I posted my previous comment.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Here you go.

Really not looking for attention or drama. I just want to protect the integrity of this board.

Message #1

Hey Tim,

I'd be buying it to try to make a few bucks, but can offer 200. If that works let me know and I can pay immediately. Thanks

Response:

I think you mean for the 1956 Topps, right?

Don't think I'll go quite there. How about 275? Putting a few items up over the next week or so. Trying to get the wife new counter tops in the kitchen...


Message #2

(I do not have a sent mailbox set up apparently) so it went something like...

I am offering you a price based on a 2 not a 3.


Response:

I will send it in myself if I don't get my price and I think it will be a 3 as I stated. Great eye appeal and it's from my personal collection where VG is my baseline. I already sent in my other 3 and it came back a 3. While I don't do this for a living and won't offer any guarantees, I think if I hang at 300 a collector will get it for pretty close to the price. I'll keep 275 offered to you if you change your mind. Heck, if you'll really pay tonight, 250. Good til 12pm EST.

No matter what, good luck to you. I also have 2 Red Hearts as well, one an SGC 4 and one nicer but ungraded. Would consider a straight sale as well at the right price.

(Yes I realize upon reading this that the no guarantees should have been a HUGE red flag, however he seemed knowledgeable as I took him at his word with the other 3 cards he got graded)


Here is the photo he had posted....






Here is what I got in the mail today...








Upon receiving the card I was very very disappointed.

I immediately sent him a message (don't have my sent messages) along the lines of..

Hello,

Just got the card and I must say I am disappointed. You told me this was VG but it is definitely NOT VG. I do not want any hard feelings, however I would like a refund due to the fact that this card is not as was described to me. Please get back to me asap.



His response:

Stephen,

There will be no refund. The card was well described we negotiated and you agreed to a price.

You will have no problem selling it at $250 to get out of the transaction yourself.

Have a good one,

Tim




I have since written to him 2 more times explaining I would rather not go to the board, and is $250 really worth ruining his reputation with the board over. No answer.

Although the motto on the BST is buyer beware, I was assuming satisfaction guaranteed as it always should be. No one is here to hurt someone else (or I thought).

His user ID is TimBegs.


Photos will be loaded soon.

[x2drich2000]

You could also just link to the original sale post which included his description as well.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238614

DJ

[slidekellyslide]

You should be refunded. There's no way that card is a 3 and you can't really tell from the small pics he put up on the BST.

[rainier2004]

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

[TobaccoKing4]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

In what world is that a VG card? The guy is acting like a scumbag. Don't make excuses for him.

[pokerplyr80]

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know vouches for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know voucher for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

I think he's toast on Paypal but it should not come to that. Unhappy buyer, refund him, period. WTF.

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know voucher for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

It's just like handing someone cash so unless you can go yank it back out of his bank account, you're sunk.

I've done a few transactions on here both online and locally and have had nothing but success, but I also made sure to CYA and check out who I was dealing with as some of those were pretty high-dollar transactions.

I don't think the OP necessarily got scammed, but I think the seller may have over-sold the card's condition and the OP kinda trusted the guy too much and should have either gotten better pictures/scans or stayed away from the deal altogether. Regardless, there was some mis-information and as long as the seller isn't out any money, he should do a refund to the OP and all involved just call it a wash and move on.

[mattjc1983]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know vouches for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

What is the purpose of asking for friends and family? If the buyer asks to pay friends and family as part of getting a lower price from a seller, that's one thing, but it does seem strange when a seller requests it. I'm sure the seller is just trying to get the best price he can but it can be construed as trying to remove protections for the buyer.

The better (and less shady approach) that I see and like is to say "This is what I want to get out of the card so this is the PP F&F price, but you are of course welcome to pay G&S if you cover the fees."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leon]

I would be annoyed if you sold me that card, from a small scan, and said you thought it would be a 3.

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

[ramram]

This whole thread just drips.

Rob M

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Here you go.



Response:

I will send it in myself if I don't get my price and I think it will be a 3 as I stated. Great eye appeal and it's from my personal collection where VG is my baseline. I already sent in my other 3 and it came back a 3. While I don't do this for a living and won't offer any guarantees, I think if I hang at 300 a collector will get it for pretty close to the price. I'll keep 275 offered to you if you change your mind. Heck, if you'll really pay tonight, 250. Good til 12pm EST.

No matter what, good luck to you. I also have 2 Red Hearts as well, one an SGC 4 and one nicer but ungraded. Would consider a straight sale as well at the right price.

(Yes I realize upon reading this that the no guarantees should have been a HUGE red flag, however he seemed knowledgeable as I took him at his word with the other 3 cards he got graded)




Here is what I got in the mail today...



Upon receiving the card I was very very disappointed.

I immediately sent him a message (don't have my sent messages) along the lines of..

Hello,

Just got the card and I must say I am disappointed. You told me this was VG but it is definitely NOT VG. I do not want any hard feelings, however I would like a refund due to the fact that this card is not as was described to me. Please get back to me asap.



His response:

Stephen,

There will be no refund. The card was well described we negotiated and you agreed to a price.

You will have no problem selling it at $250 to get out of the transaction yourself.

Have a good one,

Tim




I have since written to him 2 more times explaining I would rather not go to the board, and is $250 really worth ruining his reputation with the board over. No answer.

Although the motto on the BST is buyer beware, I was assuming satisfaction guaranteed as it always should be. No one is here to hurt someone else (or I thought).

His user ID is TimBegs.


Photos will be loaded soon.

The guy used a few 'seller tactic's favorites that i reference in other threads:

1. Fake Purpose: Usually its for medical bills or something but in this case its for the wife's kitchen countertops

2. From Personal Collection


Why not just refund the card. But man, thats why graded cards make sense. There would be soooo many differences of opinion of what a VG, or G card is.

I think a Seller can just say 'NO RETURNS EVER' right up front to never worry about buyers remorse as well..

either way it does look Eyeonvintage has issues with more than just one guy on net54..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I think a Seller can just say 'NO RETURNS EVER' right up front to never worry about buyers remorse as well..

..

If I see that comment on our BST the person making it will no longer be there.


.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I see that comment on our BST the person making it will no longer be there.


.

Im saying if he put that in their email correspondence in general...whether on net54 or outside as a general business practice....probably would be bad business but there may be some sellers that say its unfair if a buyer just has buyers remorse and returns a card for no real reason even though extremely clear scans, very accurate description etc etc.. (which didnt happen in this case)

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I see that comment on our BST the person making it will no longer be there.


.

I just have one question. If the no questions asked returns are going to be the policy, is the buyer or seller going to be responsible for shipping?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I just have one question. If the no questions asked returns are going to be the policy, is the buyer or seller going to be responsible for shipping?

I also recently went through this same exact thing with another member. I was traded a card that was supposed to be VG and when I received it the card was not even close to VG. We worked it out like adults thought and even made another trade so no extra shipping was involved for either of us.

Normally I would say the person returning the card pays to ship it back.

[Leon]

Where does it say, or when has anyone ever said, there would be a no questions asked return policy here? Are you serious? As I obviously wasn't clear, that is NOT the policy and never will be. This extraordinary, mandated return is being mandated for the reasons already stated. And the seller (hi Tim and this isn't personal) can also just leave and not do anything. It's America....

Specifically I wouldn't want to see a NO RETURNS EVER message in a BST listing here. If people do it other places that is their business. It is not the attitude that is wanted here.

Originally Posted by rats60

I just have one question. If the no questions asked returns are going to be the policy, is the buyer or seller going to be responsible for shipping?

[bobbyw8469]

The card does NOT look like a '3'. On a GOOD day, I can see the card getting a "2", but it might not even bring VCP average at that level. The seller DID disclose all the issues with the card. I am in the camp that DOES NOT call a spider wrinkle a crease. As a matter of fact, a good card doctor (which I am not) can get those out. For BOTH parties...the buyer, next time ask for better scans. For the seller....offer a better scan...and be honest with the evaluation. That would prevent issues like this from arising. Carry on.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Yea....The ultimate trade up, you should have gotten this card in a PSA 7 for Stephen to come out OK....