52 Mantle Vs T206 Cobb

[rats60]

Originally Posted by KendallCat

VCP shows that but I know of private sales for high end 4.5's and 5's and they are at least double those prices. I know of a 4.5 that has been offered close to $100k and a 5 over $100k - 100% legit sales.

As many folks here know most major sales are done privately and never see VCP. I have sold 4-5 Mantles recently and All were done privately all above the VCP high prices for PSA 8. VCP is a good barometer for prices, but most collectors know that a ton of great cards change hands before they are offered to the masses - collectors who really want a card make it known to sellers/dealers ahead of time and when the card comes up it is sold and for huge $$.

Then I need to talk to you. I have been trying to buy cards and have been running into a brick wall. They seem to want to go to auction houses rather than sell privately for fear of leaving dollars on the table.

[Touch'EmAll]

I feel some folks are putting words in my mouth.

My post posed the question, "What might happen as baby boomers pass?" Notice I said might. I also said, "He will always be top tier icon player, but might his pull subside?" Notice again I said might.

I never said Mantle's cards were going to drop in value. I never said Mantle's card would be a poor investment. I never said Mantle's popularity will decrease. Heck, they weren't actually statements, they were questions centered around the word, "might."

[CMIZ5290]

What words are being put in your mouth??

[KendallCat]

Reading through the thread again and disappointed at some of the attitudes expressed within. First and foremost this is a hobby for fun, and some are fortunate to have made a few $$ from it. The conversation was which card wiukr you rather have a green Cobb or a Mantle rookie which then turned into a "Mantle is overrated" and "where were his RBI's" diatribe along with "when the boomers die they will come crashing down in price."

If that happens the rest of the card market will fall with it - high tide raises all boats and low tide lowers them. Not to mention the standard being applied already shows the Mantle is a better card in this comparison. You are having a PSA 6 Cobb compete with a PSA 3 Mantle to make the argument - if you have to use a grade that is half of the Cobb to make it an even comparison what does that tell you right there.

At the end of the day Cobb, Ruth, Mantle... are all great players and have great cards. Don't know what turning this into an episode of the View is going to accomplish outside of making the thread rival a PWCC part 3 thread in terms of hits and pages in length.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by KendallCat

Reading through the thread again and disappointed at some of the attitudes expressed within. First and foremost this is a hobby for fun, and some are fortunate to have made a few $$ from it. The conversation was which card wiukr you rather have a green Cobb or a Mantle rookie which then turned into a "Mantle is overrated" and "where were his RBI's" diatribe along with "when the boomers die they will come crashing down in price."

If that happens the rest of the card market will fall with it - high tide raises all boats and low tide lowers them. Not to mention the standard being applied already shows the Mantle is a better card in this comparison. You are having a PSA 6 Cobb compete with a PSA 3 Mantle to make the argument - if you have to use a grade that is half of the Cobb to make it an even comparison what does that tell you right there.

At the end of the day Cobb, Ruth, Mantle... are all great players and have great cards. Don't know what turning this into an episode of the View is going to accomplish outside of making the thread rival a PWCC part 3 thread in terms of hits and pages in length.

If 10 years ago, if the question was asked about the Sporting News Ruth or Gehrig Exhibit, the same argument would have applied. Mantle is worth more in the same grade. However, those cards have been better investments.

We have seen several top post war cards take big drops in price. Has that killed the market? The Mantle market is being driven by investors. What happens when they sell? There is a bubble in that market. 52 Mantles in the lower grades have also dropped recently. They will be the ones hurt most if the bubble bursts. The 52 Mantle will always be the most valuable post war card, but that doesn't mean there aren't better cards to invest in.

[orly57]

I think that maybe 52 mantle vs 1914/15 Cracker jack Cobb of equal grade would have been a better debate.

[Leon]

Actually your first premise is a bit off. It is a hobby for fun but the question was concerning investment..... the first sentences stated..

If you had to chose an investment card to hold for 5 to 10 years which card would you chose. Let us assume you have 20,000 dollars to spend and you spent it all on one card. The goal would obviously be to pick the card that has the least amount of chance to go down, and the highest up side for profit.

Originally Posted by KendallCat

Reading through the thread again and disappointed at some of the attitudes expressed within. First and foremost this is a hobby for fun, and some are fortunate to have made a few $$ from it. The conversation was which card wiukr you rather have a green Cobb or a Mantle rookie which then turned into a "Mantle is overrated" and "where were his RBI's" diatribe along with "when the boomers die they will come crashing down in price."

If that happens the rest of the card market will fall with it - high tide raises all boats and low tide lowers them. Not to mention the standard being applied already shows the Mantle is a better card in this comparison. You are having a PSA 6 Cobb compete with a PSA 3 Mantle to make the argument - if you have to use a grade that is half of the Cobb to make it an even comparison what does that tell you right there.

At the end of the day Cobb, Ruth, Mantle... are all great players and have great cards. Don't know what turning this into an episode of the View is going to accomplish outside of making the thread rival a PWCC part 3 thread in terms of hits and pages in length.

[KendallCat]

Originally Posted by Leon

Actually your first premise is a bit off. It is a hobby for fun but the question was concerning investment..... the first sentences stated..

If you had to chose an investment card to hold for 5 to 10 years which card would you chose. Let us assume you have 20,000 dollars to spend and you spent it all on one card. The goal would obviously be to pick the card that has the least amount of chance to go down, and the highest up side for profit.

Leon - I understand the premise perfectly and have addressed it as such. I have $$ invested in both Cobb and Mantle, and as most collectors will tell you, along with your typical everyday person who knows sports but maybe does not collect,
the Mantle card is iconic and the face of baseball cards.

As far as which one will elevate more in the future it is like looking at a pair of stocks where one is a blue chip that has had a huge run up(Apple) versus a young start up with less stability but potentially has a huge upside. Which one do you pick? In my opinion it is like choosing a date between a hot brunette supermodel or a hot blonde one. If it was up to some members of the message boards it would turn into "that one has a mole on her chin or her eyes are too close together." Most sane people would not complain at all and simply realize that at the end of the day they are dating a hot super model. Amazing what so many conversations on here turn into rather than enjoying the hobby - investment or no investment.

[orly57]

I own every standard issue mantle you can imagine in addition to others like Stahl Meyer, Topps Super, Dan Dee, etc. I do not own a '52. Not because I can't afford one, but rather, I just don't think the value is there. I waited too long to buy it. I think that there are way too many out there (10 plus on eBay at all times and minimum of 3 at every major auction). Maybe I am being short-sighted, but I don't want to pay 30k for a beautiful 3 like KendalCat's (although if I were ever to buy one, KendallCat's would be the one I would want) because I just can't see the day where a mantle 3 would ever sell for 80 or 90k. I think we have seen a huge bubble and it is currently at peak value. At least for a very long while. I agree that it is an iconic card and the face of our hobby (along with Wagner). I also get its crossover appeal with non-collectors. I think it is a safe investment, but I don't see the lower grades ever getting a ton higher. As for high grades, will the 8.5 that sold for a million ever sell for 2 million? I don't see it.
I am particularly interested in this string because I am selling my mantle collection in order to pursue rarer issues in the pre-war world. Not for money, but because my collecting interests have changed. I prefer to buy a Rose Cobb over a Mantle 3 for the same price. Of course, the supply is lower, but so is the demand, so it doesn't necessarily mean it is a BETTER investment. It is just my preference. I would much rather buy Probstein's 1914 CJCobb over a Mantle 3 ANY DAY. I like the card better, it is far more rare, and they are comperable in price. I also happen to think it has more long-term growth potential. Most of you know precisely the card I am referring to because when a CJ Cobb goes on eBay, it is a big deal, unlike the 52 mantle.
Finally, I read some guys mentioned Ruth as the best name in the hobby. I disagree. Ruth is larger than life, but his cards leave a lot to be desired. His cards from the 20's are boring, small, black and white caramel cards, strip cards, or promotional giveaways. I can't think of any really nice Ruth cards from the 20's, which was the prime of his career. It wasn't until the end of his career when nice looking Goudeys came out, but those are not particularly rare ether. I just don't find Ruth's cards to be attractive enough to get the value a player of his stature deserves. In contrast, Cobb's early cards are gorgeous. Ruth has no cards that compare in beauty to a T206, E95, t227, T3, Cracker Jack, or other spectacular Cobb cards. They lack the color and beauty of the 1907-1915 Cobb releases. Just my opinion. I have plenty of Ruth cards, but I don't enjoy them nearly as much as my Cobbs.