Old Judge Orotone Photo/Studio Proof "Jumbo" Davis **UPDATED**

[oldjudge]

The pose is not a known one. However, to be period it would have to be an albumen print. The fact that it is not leads me to believe that it was made later, possibly from then existing genuine glass plate negatives. It could be Vermont Find related, or just some other later construct.

[GoCubsGo32]

I used the "suction cup" ( not wet ) method to the front glass. It worked after a few attempts. I carefully peeled back the foil like frame on the back. It had a black piece of cloth and when you left it up, you can see the gold backing. Thoughts? Appears to be real gold.

[slidekellyslide]

Probably copper.

[drcy]

If it's a pane of glass with the back painted in gold, that's what is an orotone. I don't have the item in hand, but that's what the back of an orotone looks like.

The below is a video of orotones being taken out of their frames and the backs shown.

[drcy]

I add that in the old days, tintypes, daguerreotypes and ambrotypes often had their cases and frames switched. Someone way back when might have thought a family tintype would look nicer in a different case and frame, or the original case was damaged or worn, so switched it. Just like someone today reframing a photo or print. So that a case is from a different era than the photo doesn't prove a photo fake and is not a rare occurrence.

In fact, beginning collectors are taught not to date tintypes, dags and ambrotypes just by the case and frame, because switching was common.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by drcy

I add that in the old days, tintypes, daguerreotypes and ambrotypes often had their cases and frames switched. Someone way back when might have thought a family tintype would look nicer in a different case and frame, or the original case was damaged or worn, so switched it. Just like someone today reframing a photo or print. So that a case is from a different era than the photo doesn't prove a photo fake and is not a rare occurrence.

In fact, beginning collectors are taught not to date tintypes, dags and ambrotypes just by the case and frame, because switching was common.

I agree with David. However, I find it interesting that the "orotone" is a perfect fit into a sixth plate case. Did orotones happen to fall into the same sizing as the older dags, ambros and tintypes - i.e. did they come in 1/9th, 1/6th, 1/4, 1/2 and full plate sizes?

Rob M.

[drcy]

Orotones are usually large. However, there were a lot of cases around and it's a matter of finding one that fits.

[drcy]

The Old Judge text in the image is very curious, but the photo itself looks like an orotone. Definitely looks like gold on the back (gold doesn't tarnish with age, which is one reason why it's so prized). I was the one who suggested he take it out and look at the back. I recall seeing two other baseball orotones.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by drcy

Orotones are usually large. However, there were a lot of cases around and it's a matter of finding one that fits.

That, to me, makes it even stranger that it would precisely fit into an 1860's sixth plate case. Another oddity is the subject of the image being larger than the boundaries of the photo. You would RARELY ever see that back then. With this in mind, the thought might be that it were cut down, however, its made of glass so rule that one out.

My gut tells me that its possibly an early 1900's reprint of an Old Judge into Orotone format or its just another of the multitude of recent fakes.

Rob M.