NYPL Peck & Snyder Red Stockings Card

[Bpm0014]

Another WOW. I love this site, and visit it multiple times per day and use almost all of the auction houses advertised, but to threaten to ban someone for starting a poll/disagreeing with you is kind of ridiculous. Kudos for Wonka for standing up for what he believes in sans fear of being banned. We may be surprised to find out how people really feel in an anonymous poll.....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Another WOW. I love this site, and visit it multiple times per day and use almost all of the auction houses advertised, but to threaten to ban someone for starting a poll/disagreeing with you is kind of ridiculous. Kudos for Wonka for standing up for what he believes in sans fear of being banned. We may be surprised to find out how people really feel in an anonymous poll.....

Personally I think he is trying to be banned so he can have a cause, as it is he is a rebel without a cause. Kudos for that.

[asphaltman]

I would like to take a three pound meat tenderizer and smash my fingers with it.

[ErikV]

John,

Sounds like you really got an ax to grind. I'm curious, what would it take, or
would you like Leon to say or do to please you? Again, the card was given back
to the NYPL. What else could Leon possibly do at this point to make things right?

ErikV

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by ErikV

John,

Sounds like you really got an ax to grind. I'm curious, what would it take, or
would you like Leon to say or do to please you? Again, the card was given back
to the NYPL. What else could Leon possibly do at this point to make things right?

ErikV

Erik, happy to answer. All that was originally said was that it was a great outcome but getting there is far from the cliff notes version of what Leon is now saying. That turned into Leon insinuating that I'm making up stories. Which offended me as I think it would most if you.

Leon knows and he's welcome to deny that he and I exchanged quite a few civil PMs during the mess. In which he admits to knowing there was a mark the day the FBI returned his card. He said he didn't bother to look into it beyond that. His reasoning was that nobody he talked to said they would look into it. He also states that he thought researching the mark to identify it was going to be expensive so he didn't bother. Even though it was easily deduced from simple scans. He also admitted to me that in hindsight he should have taken the time to look into the mark...but he just didn't because he felt most wouldn't bother.

Now fast forward and it's he only really knew about the mark the day it was made public here and after it was listed for sale. This is either not true or if it true it's only because Leon choose to ignore an issue and list the card for sale without any due diligence in regards to the issues he was made aware of by the FBI.

Sorry if I have an issue with a person playing nice in PMs and taking quite a bit more responsibility behind close doors for some not so smart choices of ignoring issues around an item. All while playing a different hand to the public. I've never claimed he willing knew of the mark being a NYPL mark. But I have stayed true to the fact that he had every chance to find out what this mark was and choose to ignore or take no action until after it was brought to light by others. That's what bothers me about the whole thing.

Again if any of the above is not true please feel free to correct Leon.

I would ask if this wasn't Leon if these actions and choices were played by anyone else would everyone be so quick to dismiss and turn the the tables. Keep in mind it wasn't me who was looking to profit from a questionable item through poor choices or other reasons.

Cheers,

John

[smokelessjoe]

Wonka,

I am certain that if you realized how many times you've repeated yourself, you would stop. You are too smart for this. Surely you realize that at a certain point whether you're right or wrong you start to appear in a negative light that in fact you are wrong. You start to make yourself "look bad" you realize that right? Have you thought about why you waited till someone posted a positive thread before you made your comments? If you had something to say, why not start your own thread? it makes you look selfish, that your point is more Important than everyone else's.

Be well,

P.s. My guess is that you'll only address my "thread" question...

[TexasLeaguer]

"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants..."
-Louis Brandeis

[cubsfan-budman]

Leon knows and he's welcome to deny that he and I exchanged quite a few civil PMs during the mess. In which he admits to knowing there was a mark the day the FBI returned his card. He said he didn't bother to look into it beyond that. His reasoning was that nobody he talked to said they would look into it. He also states that he thought researching the mark to identify it was going to be expensive so he didn't bother. Even though it was easily deduced from simple scans. He also admitted to me that in hindsight he should have taken the time to look into the mark...but he just didn't because he felt most wouldn't bother.

the FBI had the card in their hands, looked at it and decided to give it back to leon. that's about where i'd stop investigating, myself. if they didn't know what it was, i wouldn't personally bother doing much more.

also, the transcript of the conversation between him and brockelman say diddly squat that implicates anyone. the FBI could easily have told leon why they wanted to look at the card...and knowing that NYPL was involved, they'd know the history behind those thefts. when the FBI gave the card a thumbs up, that's about all i'd need to know.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Erik, happy to answer. All that was originally said was that it was a great outcome but getting there is far from the cliff notes version of what Leon is now saying. That turned into Leon insinuating that I'm making up stories. Which offended me as I think it would most if you.

Leon knows and he's welcome to deny that he and I exchanged quite a few civil PMs during the mess. In which he admits to knowing there was a mark the day the FBI returned his card. He said he didn't bother to look into it beyond that. His reasoning was that nobody he talked to said they would look into it. He also states that he thought researching the mark to identify it was going to be expensive so he didn't bother. Even though it was easily deduced from simple scans. He also admitted to me that in hindsight he should have taken the time to look into the mark...but he just didn't because he felt most wouldn't bother.

Now fast forward and it's he only really knew about the mark the day it was made public here and after it was listed for sale. This is either not true or if it true it's only because Leon choose to ignore an issue and list the card for sale without any due diligence in regards to the issues he was made aware of by the FBI.

Sorry if I have an issue with a person playing nice in PMs and taking quite a bit more responsibility behind close doors for some not so smart choices of ignoring issues around an item. All while playing a different hand to the public. I've never claimed he willing knew of the mark being a NYPL mark. But I have stayed true to the fact that he had every chance to find out what this mark was and choose to ignore or take no action until after it was brought to light by others. That's what bothers me about the whole thing.

Again if any of the above is not true please feel free to correct Leon.

I would ask if this wasn't Leon if these actions and choices were played by anyone else would everyone be so quick to dismiss and turn the the tables. Keep in mind it wasn't me who was looking to profit from a questionable item through poor choices or other reasons.

Cheers,

John

First of all in those rapid fire PMs there is no doubt I was placating you. That was a mistake and I will admit that. (as I said on the phone today) And the ID wasn't deduced from simple scans. The scan was 1200dpi and an exemplar overlay was used. Not quite a simple scan. And if you are going post about PM's why not say the whole context?

"I guess I should have pursued it in retrospect...but no one I have spoken with personally would have done that. What can I say?"


So yes, in 20/20 hindsight it would have been good to pursue further because a mark was eventually ID'd. But with the information at hand I made the correct decision at the time and would make all of the same decisions again. The authorities knew every single thing I did with the card before, during and after the return. If I was trying to hide something I wasn't hanging with the right people. But again John, I don't think I will ever convince you of the truth.

[travrosty]

"The scan was 1200dpi and an exemplar overlay was used. Not quite a simple scan. And if you are going post about PM's why not say the whole context? "
--------------------------------------

I guess no one had a good scanner?

this isnt an overlay, it is clearly the word library that the owner of the card for over a year had the opportunity to closely inspect it. its quite obvious it is the word 'library' and 'library stamp' was the first word the AH used in the description. Leon, was it your verbiage or the AH verbiage to use that paragraph about the stamp. Did you give them the exact sentence to use, or did they think of it? please answer this question.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

"The scan was 1200dpi and an exemplar overlay was used. Not quite a simple scan. And if you are going post about PM's why not say the whole context? "
--------------------------------------

I guess no one had a good scanner?

this isnt an overlay, it is clearly the word library that the owner of the card for over a year had the opportunity to closely inspect it. its quite obvious it is the word 'library' and 'library stamp' was the first word the AH used in the description. Leon, was it your verbiage or the AH verbiage to use that paragraph about the stamp. Did you give them the exact sentence to use, or did they think of it? please answer this question.

You help the criminal Nash way too much and I don't like your attitude. You are in timeout....

[Leon]

And for interested parties Wonka just made the time out booth too. I am just done with the BS.