pete rose: What a Hitter & What a Scumbag !!

[packs]

This guy is a bum. A man who feels remorse admits what he did without prompting. A coward continues to deny, deny, deny, and even after being caught red handed, will continue to dismiss the seriousness of what they've done.

Pete Rose should not ever be elected to the HOF and he should be shunned by baseball for eternity.

[JoeDfan]

Yeah, he bet on baseball. Yeah, he lied about it. We all know it.
But watching him play baseball was one of the greatest times in my life. I have seen a lot of people play, but I have never seen anyone, ANYONE, play like Pete.

We have juicers in baseball. We have racists, and domestic abusers, and coke fiends. Boozers and skirt chasers. Baseball is not squeaky clean. It never has been, and I doubt it ever will be. But that is what makes it unique, it is a history and a chronicle and a reflection of us. If baseball is dirty, it is only because we, the fans, made it that way.

I think it is unfair to keep Pete out of the Hall. I am not saying we should canonize the guy, and rename him St. Peter. He should NOT be allowed to manage any more teams.

I personally forgive Pete, and think that before it is too late, we should finally let him come home. But not for Pete. For me. I don't want to end my days thinking that I was too selfish to forgive someone who made stupid mistakes. I know I have made mine.

Ok, well, my mistakes didn't exactly involve ten grand on the Reds when I am the lead off hitter.
In fact, now that I think about it, my life mistakes don't seem too bad, compared to that.
Well, I don't know about all of you, but I suddenly feel much better about my life.

Thanks Pete!

[vintagetoppsguy]

“Scumbag“
“pile of crap“
“liar“
“bum“
“coward“


Yup, he's all that and a whole lot more. I agree with you guys. However, I do think he should be in the Hall of Fame. It's the HOF, not the Hall of Integrity.

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

I think it is unfair to keep Pete out of the Hall. I

+1

[RTK]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

“Scumbag“
“pile of crap“
“liar“
“bum“
“coward“


Yup, he's all that and a whole lot more. I agree with you guys. However, I do think he should be in the Hall of Fame. It's the HOF, not the Hall of Integrity. +1

Not while he's alive, if at all. It seemed as if baseball was moving towards Rose but I'm sure this shuts down any hope. Joe Jackson is more deserving of being forgiven and making the Hall. I always saw Jackson as "the canary in the mine" , if he made it in, Rose would. Rose is his own worst enemy, great player though in his prime, but I wonder when the evidence will come out he bet against his team.

[skelly]

I like Rose, and while he certainly has his faults, he's made for numerous debates, etc.... Let's face it, is Derek Jeter a good guy? I don't know him, but by all accounts, yes. Here's the thing. If all pro athletes were like Derek Jeter, pro sports would be pretty boring. It's the villains and personalities that make pro sports interesting. I'm also a A-Rod and a Richard Sherman fan just for the record. My one beef with Rose was the Ray Fosse incident in the All Star game. That was uncalled for.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by RTK

Not while he's alive, if at all. It seemed as if baseball was moving towards Rose but I'm sure this shuts down any hope. Joe Jackson is more deserving of being forgiven and making the Hall. I always saw Jackson as "the canary in the mine" , if he made it in, Rose would. Rose is his own worst enemy, great player though in his prime, but I wonder when the evidence will come out he bet against his team.

Rick - I wholeheartedly agree with 'not while he's alive' - if he was to be inducted while still living, he'd be getting better treatment than Santo, who obviously deserved better.

It does not matter if he bet against his team - if he only bets ON his team at certain times, it has the same effect. Being the manager or one of the regular players, he was in a position to directly affect the outcome of the games he bet on, and thusly on even the ones he did not bet on.

Remember, there is a sign in EVERY Major League clubhouse that states betting on Baseball in 'taboo' (I'm not sure of the actual wording, but the message is crystal clear).

[packs]

It's not really about whether or not Rose is a good guy. It's about whether or not he broke cardinal rules of baseball, which he did do. He could have broken all the rules he wanted in his personal life, but when you break the rules of baseball, it's not unreasonable to be punished. He knew the punishment before he broke the rules and he did it anyway. He is banned because he should be banned.

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by RTK

Not while he's alive, if at all. It seemed as if baseball was moving towards Rose but I'm sure this shuts down any hope. Joe Jackson is more deserving of being forgiven and making the Hall. I always saw Jackson as "the canary in the mine" , if he made it in, Rose would. Rose is his own worst enemy, great player though in his prime, but I wonder when the evidence will come out he bet against his team.

I'm not sure how Jow Jackson is more deserving... he actually threw World Series games and possibly regular season games in 1920. Buck Weaver maybe... but not joe jackson. I say never let any of them in.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I'm not sure how Jow Jackson is more deserving... he actually threw World Series games and possibly regular season games in 1920. Buck Weaver maybe... but not joe jackson. I say never let any of them in.

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

[RTK]

Originally Posted by rats60

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

Yup, I was under the impression he played pretty well.

"Debate has raged ever since over the extent of Jackson’s participation in the scheme. He claimed his teammates gave his name to the gamblers even though he hadn’t agreed to participate, and the other players admitted that Jackson never attended meetings about the fix. Though Jackson signed a confession in 1920 stating that he was paid $5,000 (out of the $20,000 he was promised), he later asserted that a team lawyer manipulated him into signing a document he didn’t fully understand. (Jackson never learned to read or write.) He also said he tried to return the money and talk to White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the plan both before and after the series, but was rebuffed.

And finally, there’s the matter of Jackson’s play on the field. During the 1919 championship, the slugger made no errors and racked up 12 hits, a World Series record that stood until 1964. His batting average for the series (.375) was the highest on either team. If Jackson did try to throw the championship, his supporters argue, he did a pretty poor job. In any event, after the 1921 ban Jackson played “outlaw” ball under an assumed name before retiring to his hometown of Greenville, South Carolina, where he eventually owned a liquor store. He made various efforts to be reinstated, all of which were denied, before his death in 1951."

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by rats60

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

I don't think there is much doubt that he participated in throwing these games. He even took payment and testified to this.
Most of his stats were padded at irrelevant points in the games and in the Cicotte game when they were actually trying to win.

[benjoman]

What if players like Clemens, McGuire, Canseco, Braun, Rodriguez and others to many for naming get into the Hall. Is that really fair? They are flat out cheaters no matter how one looks at it. If an Olympic metal can be stripped because of doping, then a lifetime ban should be in place on players for the Hall. Gambling is an addiction, juicing is a choice!! I know many hate Rose but his accomplishments were pure not chemically enhanced!!

[HRBAKER]

The first time he bet on baseball it was a choice. There are plenty of other things to bet on. He has had years and years of opportunities to come clean and exhibit a modicom of remorse. Poor Pete. What everyone else has done matters not.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by benjoman

What if players like Clemens, McGuire, Canseco, Braun, Rodriguez and others to many for naming get into the Hall. Is that really fair? They are flat out cheaters no matter how one looks at it. If an Olympic metal can be stripped because of doping, then a lifetime ban should be in place on players for the Hall. Gambling is an addiction, juicing is a choice!! I know many hate Rose but his accomplishments were pure not chemically enhanced!!

Braun used an unauthorized substance (not a performance enhancer) to heal a calf injury that had been bothering him for nearly the entire 2011 season. Was it wrong? Yes. Should he have been suspended? Yes. Does that even begin to compare to betting on baseball games (including games he was playing in, and managing) for years, and then lying about it for decades?

Not in the slightest.

[EvilKing00]

I think pete should be in the HOF as well as Joe jacksan and a few other "bad guys" like mentioned before the guy was an awesome player and my kid and eventually grand kids should be able to see him in the hof. the Hof is a museum... a history of the best players.

here are my complete thoughts -

http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/01...-of-fame.html/