Please show a card more rare than Wagner (T206)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Peter

I've tracked 1949 Paige cards since 1982, when I acquired my Paige.

That "135" number you have noted is the result of re-grades and crossovers.

My educated estimate is that approx. 80-90 different Paige cards are actually reflected in that number.

The 1949 Leaf Paige is one of the most sought after post-war cards; therefore, , it garners some ridiculously high $$$$$ figures.

And, as little as 0.5 increase in it being RE-GRADED results in 1000's of $$$$ increase in its market price.


T-Rex TED
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Ted there are also 44 sgc graded ones. And who knows how many ungraded. Not saying it isn't a very tough card, just saying it isn't Wagner in terms of scarcity.

[jb217676]

Great cardboard guys! Here are a few tough ones that I own.

[Jobu]

Jeff, I absolutely love that Mathewson! Thanks for posting it, I didn't even know it existed (like many other cards in this thread - thanks to you all).

Another cool thing about the Pastime Novelty Mathewson - that card is also Caspar the Friendly Ghost's rookie.

Originally Posted by jb217676

Great cardboard guys! Here are a few tough ones that I own.

[DixieBaseball]

Incredible bouquet of cardboard in this thread. The Holmes Joe and the Baltimore Ruth are easily my personal favorites, but those Nadja & Williams Wags are way more scarce than the T206 Wagner and awesome. The Type 1 Coupons are not even fighting fair as most of those are at 10-15 examples or less and not even close to the T-Wags. Seeing all this talent really makes me even question why the T206 Wags is valued so high. This may sound crazy, but I don't think I would want to invest 6 figures in it. What makes it worth so much? There is no rarity. Perhaps minimal scarcity. Only bloated fascination that has amplified over the decades. To be clear I am not a hater (just don't understand is more like it...) and think it's a neat card but so many more HOFer's in the T206 set are more scarce with backs like Lenox, etc. Let me digress and throw a few more that are way more scarce than the T-Wags. Great net 54 participation! Keep em coming.

[DixieBaseball]

2 more rare Bays... One being from T-Wag's set and much more scarce.

[HRBAKER]

Pretty sure this qualifies. May be close

[CW]

Very impressive, Raymond. You should go for a complete set!

And that's a great looking Wagner there, Dan. I'll take VG 3s like that all day.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

.... Seeing all this talent really makes me even question why the T206 Wags is valued so high. This may sound crazy, but I don't think I would want to invest 6 figures in it. What makes it worth so much? There is no rarity. Perhaps minimal scarcity. Only bloated fascination that has amplified over the decades. To be clear I am not a hater (just don't understand is more like it...) and think it's a neat card but so many more HOFer's in the T206 set are more scarce with backs like Lenox, etc. .....

The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Leon

The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

Hey Leon, one major thing that the Wagner has going for it is hobby lore and tradition. And when something gets that ensconced in the hobby psyche, it essentially becomes part of the collecting fabric, which, will essentially allow for monetary growth regardless of its rarity.

[pbspelly]

Leon is absolutely correct. There are tons of cards rarer than the Wagner (including, I would guess, my Plow's Candy below), but few or none that have the Wagner T206 combination of
1) top 10 Hall-of-Famer
2)hugely popular card series (T206)
3)scarcity
4) interesting back story (the whole tobacco thing, whether true or not).
Not to mention famous owners, such as Gretzky.

[DixieBaseball]

[QUOTE=Leon;1362635]The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

LL - I sorta get what you are saying, but why do people want one? When did people start wanting one? Who drove this card to the peak of the hobby and when did it register ? (What year?)

I think Brent nailed it : "... When something gets ensconced in the hobby psyche..."

So when did the Wags take off and become important? 1950's ? Why did that happen?

As far as Top 10 HOFer, T206 set, etc. --- That would easily apply to Cobb. So why not Cobb ? Which Cobb with a T206 back would fit in that 60-80 examples known range?

I believe the Baltimore Ruth will eventually become the Pinnacle card in the hobby. It's sorta already happening the last few sales... It's getting there. Cobb w/ Cobb back is too rare perhaps. I would rather own it over the Wags, but that is just me.

Good discussion, guys - Here's another one that is more rare than T-Wags :

[Robextend]

Only a couple graded between PSA and SGC

[pbspelly]

[QUOTE=DixieBaseball;1362991]

Originally Posted by Leon

As far as Top 10 HOFer, T206 set, etc. --- That would easily apply to Cobb. So why not Cobb ? Which Cobb with a T206 back would fit in that 60-80 examples known range?

I believe the Baltimore Ruth will eventually become the Pinnacle card in the hobby. It's sorta already happening the last few sales... It's getting there. Cobb w/ Cobb back is too rare perhaps. I would rather own it over the Wags, but that is just me.

As someone else pointed out, the rare Cobb T206 cards have to do with a rare back. Whereas the rare Wagner T206 is (I believe) the only T206 with Wagner on the front. So the Wagner is desirable even for folks who are not into rare backs.

That said, I agree that a Cobb w/Cobb back is cooler than the Wagner at this point.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ted there are also 44 sgc graded ones. And who knows how many ungraded. Not saying it isn't a very tough card, just saying it isn't Wagner in terms of scarcity.

I really don't want to belabor this....but, I have seen the SGC pop data; and, I'm suspicious of the numbers.

When I see Graded numbers bunched together (as they are in SGC's data on Paige), then I'd bet these #'s are the results of quite a number of re-grades.

Of the 44 graded ones, my guess is there are no more than 25 "unique" Paige cards.

Where does this leave us......approximately 100 "unique" 1949 Leaf Paige cards in circulation.

Whoops ! ....I forgot my ungraded Paige......so, there are 101.


Eventually, I predict that the number of T206 Wagner's will approach 100.


T-Rex TED
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Ted are you saying that yours is the only one left ungraded? Even if you are right there are only 100 graded ones, I am sure there are many ungraded ones as well.

[seattlerainiers]

Rare is an understatement here:

[Tom S.]

Any card from this set would qualify...

[tedzan]

It's my understanding that this T3 Doolan with the Turkey Red adv. back is very rare (considerably less than 50 examples).

T3 experts....please confirm, or correct me, regarding this observation


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TED Z
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[tedzan]

TED Z
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[joeadcock]

Very low pops on these: