Perhaps the most unethical thing I've seen in our hobby. Topps should be ashamed

[mark evans]

Just another reason to eschew new product. Card collecting has gone downhill, in my view, ever since it became infeasible to collect complete sets.

[Jayworld]

Originally Posted by mark evans

Just another reason to eschew new product. Card collecting has gone downhill, in my view, ever since it became infeasible to collect complete sets.

+1 on this. Being a former set builder (complete sets 1975-82) outside the pre-war realm, I quickly realized when I got back into the hobby about 2001 or so that I could no longer affordably put together a new/current set of baseball cards. That was a bummer and redefined the way I approached the hobby.

[jhs5120]

Okay, so I'm a little slow and this is very complicated.

If I understand this, Topps created 2013 Kris Bryant cards and added them to 2014 cases. The 2013 cards are now (of course) considered his rookie which bring down the value of the 2014 cards.

I mean, I wouldn't consider it unethical just lack of foresight. I'm sure Topps thought it would be cool to add a top prospect to a set that he was previously excluded from. I doubt they considered the impact the release would have on the 2014 cards.

[steve B]

Except that there are a bunch of actual 2013 cards - Rize, Leaf, a bunch of other Panini sets, diamond prospects, Bowman Draft..........

I looked at a couple of the Bowmans on Ebay, and I'm puzzled how Topps put a 2013 copyright notice on a 2014 card. Makes me wonder if they actually registered a copyright for it.

I get how it's not at all good for Topps to start up the "time machine", but I also think it's pretty silly for anyone to consider a card issued in a 2014 product to be a 2013 card just because the manufacturer put that date on it and used last years design. Even sillier for them to pay a huge premium for it.

Even sillier for anyone to consider either as his "rookie" card when he still hasn't played a game in the majors. If it is, then the actual 2013 issues that had a mix of current players and prospects should have more claim to it. Like maybe Bowman Sterling.



Steve B

[irishdenny]

Some where iN All of this...
iS a Class Action Law Suite Just Waiting to HaPPeN ~

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Okay, so I'm a little slow and this is very complicated.

If I understand this, Topps created 2013 Kris Bryant cards and added them to 2014 cases. The 2013 cards are now (of course) considered his rookie which bring down the value of the 2014 cards.

I mean, I wouldn't consider it unethical just lack of foresight. I'm sure Topps thought it would be cool to add a top prospect to a set that he was previously excluded from. I doubt they considered the impact the release would have on the 2014 cards.

Jason, let me try to explain this better. This was not a lack of foresight. Topps plans out what players will be released well in advance of the product coming out.

2013 Bowman Chrome had its complete run. The last leg of the Bowman Baseball/Bowman Chrome/Bowman Draft Picks & Prospects hit the stores in the first week of December 2013. All the players in the 3 releases had been announced. The complete checklist was known. Everybody knew exactly what autos were released in each set.

Jump forward to the spring of 2014. Topps announces that Bowman Baseball 2014, which would be released on April 30th, 2014, would not only include Jose Abreu's first Bowman baseball card (and a Bowman Chrome card, and a Bowman Chrome prospect auto), but Kris Bryant would also see the debut
his debut in Bowman Baseball. And he, too, would have a Chrome and a Chrome prospect auto. So, Bowman Baseball, which is always a hot product, but can be even hotter depending on who signs, became the product to buy in 2014. Bryant is a mega prospect on the Bryce Harper/Mike Trout scale. Abreu is the best player to ever come out of Cuba. People pre-ordered boxes and cases, and when April 30th hit, the product was bought at record levels. For whatever reason, the rumor began that Bryant's Chrome prospect auto would be short printed. Because of that factor, the price for the cards that were found reached astronomical prices. Base Chrome autos (unserialized cards) were going for over $1,000 each. The product went like nuts. Well, Bowman Chrome made its debut in September, and it, too, would include the Bryant 2014 Bowman Chrome auto card, the same one that came out in 2014 Bowman. So, people were learning that the card was not short printed. A lot of people ended up overpaying because of a perceived scarcity. I don't know if Topps started the rumor, but they certainly wouldn't lose out if they leaked it was short printed. It would drive more demand for their product. So anyway, Bowman Chromes sold. Boxes and cases. Topps made a small fortune. More Kris Bryant Chrome prospect auto cards were had. But then a funny thing happened. One of Topps' other Bowman product lines, Bowman Platinum, came out. And somebody who opened a box pulled out a Kris Bryant Bowman Chrome prospect auto. But this was not a 2014 card. This was not the card that came out in April, and then in September. This was a card that had the same design as 2013 Bowman Chrome. 2013 Bowman Chrome last came out in September of 2013. This was November of 2014. So, all the people who had bought case after case, box after box of 2014 Bowman Baseball, and 2014 Bowman Chrome baseball, in order to get Kris Bryant's first Bowman Chrome prospect auto...with the appearance of 2013 Bowman Chrome Kris Bryant autos, all those people no longer had his first prospect auto. They now had a Kris Bryant Bowman Chrome auto, which still carried value. But it had now been kicked down the road. Now, his 2013 Bowman Chrome prospect auto was his very best card. And if Bryant became a Hall of Famer 23 years from now, the card that will command the most money will not be the 2014 Bowman Chrome prospect auto card that is marked as his 1st Bowman Chrome card, the card that everybody thought was his first prospect auto card. The 2013 Bowman Chrome prospect auto card will be the most valuable.

Topps knowingly had Bryant sign 2013 Bowman Chrome cards AND 2014 Bowman Chrome cards. They released 2014 Bowman/Bowman Chrome with his auto cards just as they said they would. Then, after those had sold like crazy, and made Topps a fortune, they started putting his 2013 Chrome autos in other 2014 Bowman products to drive their sales, and in doing so, they said "sorry, all you guys that spent tens of thousands of dollars to get those rare 2014 cards. They're still valuable, as they have his auto, but they're not "the card". And all those people that bought his 2014 cards, and the boxes and cases of boxes to acquire one of those rare autographed prospect cards, they were sold product under false pretenses. And this wasn't something unforeseen. Topps knew exactly what they were doing.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

And if Bryant became a Hall of Famer 23 years from now, the card that will command the most money will not be the 2014 Bowman Chrome prospect auto card that is marked as his 1st Bowman Chrome card, the card that everybody thought was his first prospect auto card. The 2013 Bowman Chrome prospect auto card will be the most valuable.

That's a huge if and unequally the biggest reason some collectors are mad. Chrome is king and undoubtedly the two biggest cards of the past 20 years are the Pujols and Trout Chrome Autos. One is at almost $3k and the other is at $1000-$1200 and climbing. The huge caveat, though, is that those are both two players who were (or currently are) considered the best in the game. Yeah, if Kris Bryant has an amazing career and goes down as one of the all-time greats the fact he has two Bowman Chrome AU Rc's that aren't SP'd could dilute the prices somewhat, but odds are even if he only had a Sp'd 2014 Bowman Chrome Auto in 5-10 year it would still be only worth a percentage of the current market value. Right now Bowman Chrome Autos of Austin Meadows, Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Carlos Correa, Javier Beaz, and Albert Almora go anywhere from $50-$150 for base Chrome autos. (60% of the people who read this will say "who?") For reference you can also get these bowman Chrome Autos in the same price range and sometimes cheaper: David Price, Stephen Strasburg, Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Felix Hernandez, Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman, Sonny Gray (around $20), Jose Abreu, Mike Stanton, Josh Donaldson, and a host of other All-Stars. Three years ago the Bryce Harper Bowman Chrome Base AU was a $500-$700 card, now it's $175. Heck, Toe Nash was $300 at one point. To me this argument is just invalid.

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Was it on the 2013 checklist?

No.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Buying expensive boxes of cards with an extremely low chance of getting a particular chase card is just dumb anyhow.

Whole lot of idiots at Net54 then.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=194058

[EvilKing00]

So the 2014's came out in 2014, then the 2013 Bryant came out in 2014 as well?

Does the 2013 Bryant have a date on it?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

So the 2014's came out in 2014, then the 2013 Bryant came out in 2014 as well?

Does the 2013 Bryant have a date on it?

Yes, they have the 2013 date despite being a late 2014 release.

Anyone know for sure if predating a copyright makes it invalid or anything?

Steve B

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by steve B

Yes, they have the 2013 date despite being a late 2014 release.

Anyone know for sure if predating a copyright makes it invalid or anything?

Steve B

Wow! To me thats a fake card if u will. Comes out in 14 with a 13 date???
Maybe they should print up some 1951 mantles next week. Thats aweful

[packs]

I don't really understand the point of view of buying boxes for chase cards being a joke. How many people on the board would buy a pack of 100 year old cigarettes for a few hundred or even a thousand dollars because they think there might be a baseball card in it?

[HobokenJon]

Hey, genius. You should have performed a discounted-cash-flow analysis of your newly printed BASEBALL CARDS' intrinsic value before choosing to invest.

[honus94566]

Anyone still buying new packs of baseball cards in 2014, all I can say is the joke's on them.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Anyone still buying new packs of baseball cards in 2014, all I can say is the joke's on them.

Depends on the motive. I have bought packs just for my kids to open. Because of the drop in prices after newer stuff comes out I was about to get 4 boxes of 2013 topps for $25 total a few months back. Then each day I gave them a couple of packs to open. They didn't open and look through them for monetary gain, and I didn't buy them for monetary gain. It was purely for the root of the hobby, to have fun and look through the pictures. My 4 year old daughter would come up with stories for the "boys" on the front of the cards, then she would match up pictures that looked the same ("boys with bats", "boys throwing ball", "funny looking boys"). My 2 year old just liked making nice stacks after looking through them and would carry them around. My 1 year old just had fun opening up and pulling them out and then throwing them after yelling "ball".

No joke on me, it was a joyful time.

[honus94566]

That is true - I've bought a few packs myself for my boys, 6 and 8. They have had fun with them. Cost me under $10.

What I mean is, anybody buying boxes and boxes of new cards searching for whatever chase card, autograph, or fragment of bat or jersey that might be found, that's who the joke is on.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by honus94566

That is true - I've bought a few packs myself for my boys, 6 and 8. They have had fun with them. Cost me under $10.

What I mean is, anybody buying boxes and boxes of new cards searching for whatever chase card, autograph, or fragment of bat or jersey that might be found, that's who the joke is on.

Yes, I agree on the point that if you are buying to play the "lottery" the joke is certainly on you, because you are unearthing 1000s of low to no value cards to get one card that typically just seems to allow you to break even after all the boxes were bought.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by honus94566

That is true - I've bought a few packs myself for my boys, 6 and 8. They have had fun with them. Cost me under $10.

What I mean is, anybody buying boxes and boxes of new cards searching for whatever chase card, autograph, or fragment of bat or jersey that might be found, that's who the joke is on.

Until you open up a box of baseball cards you spent $75 on, and find a 2014 Bowman Chrome Kris Bryant red refractor auto /5, and then sell it for $7,333.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Bowman-...item5411a7a5d0

[the 'stache]

Some people actually buy the product because they enjoy it. I'll buy a few boxes of 2014 Bowman Chrome for the fun of it. I don't expect to buy any of the big name autos. In the past, I would just buy the individual top prospects. I don't know if I'm still going to do that. I might buy some of them. It gets hard trying to keep up, especially when the majority of my discretionary cash to put towards the hobby is going to go for vintage and pre-war.

Steve, here's the 2013 card. Notice how Beckett is describing it on their flip. "2013 card released in 2014 Topps products".

The 2013 card, released in 2014 products starting in June 2014, has a 2013 copyright.