Bidding Strangeness - More Probstein123

[jhs5120]

It certainly looks like the guy placed a bid on his own consignment. It's peculiar that he placed such a low amount that wouldn't have won the auction in any case. As if he wanted to still be a shilling jerk, but wanted to be a useless shilling jerk.

If you look at other items he's bid on it seems as though he placed a few other "safety" bids on Probstein auctions and didn't win any of them. I guess this is the risk of bidding in an auction :/

It would be interesting to know if this was a forum member.

[T206Collector]

How do you see the other items he's bid on?

[Peter_Spaeth]

At that price level, he was just bumping it along, not seriously shilling it.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At that price level, he was just bumping it along, not seriously shilling it.

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

It's like going 56 in a 55 MPH zone or going 75. Both are illegal, but....

[cincyredlegs]

First off, very nice Chase. I saw that card last night and was going to bid until I saw it was Probstein. He had several really nice T206's but I just can't bear to bid on any of his auctions. For me, it's just the principle.

Mark

[kamikidEFFL]

I've purchased some cards from him and I have looked at who's bidding but seems I'm getting very reasonable prices and the shipping is super fast. Idk maybe I'm missing something here

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

This was only misdemeanor shilling - not felony shilling.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

This was only misdemeanor shilling - not felony shilling.

nice!

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

How do you see the other items he's bid on?

Right now all you can see is his bid history: Link


Probstein should be "Seller 10" on this list and you can see he placed a single bid on several items early in the auction and none of them won.

If you want to find specific items you need to go to Probstein's completed listings (last night's listings aren't available at the time of this post). I have consigned with Probstein on a couple occasions and he will always lists/ends your items within a minute of each other. So, you can look at the completed listings immediately before the Hal Chase and immediately after and find the other items this particular person consigned. Then, you can find out if he shilled any of them (which his bid history indicates he might have).

Once you know what cards he consigned and what cards he bought it may be fairly easy to find out the name of the person. Especially if they're all tobacco cards.

Hopefully it isn't a forum member!

[sbfinley]

I'm not trying to be an apologist for Probstein (although sometimes I am), but I try to look at it this way:

If I ran my own eBay consignment company that had 500-1000 auctions going off weekly and almost a million in sales quarterly how many of these questions would I honestly answer yes to?

1. I would myself or salary someone to check all completed auctions for suspicious bidding.

2. I would alert bidders/auction winners about suspicious bidding.

3. I would prevent cosigners I believe are shilling from consigning in the future.

4. I would prevent auction winners from immediately consigning their winnings with me.

5. I would not provide my top customers with additional information such as scans or opinions on which cards might be worth a crack and re-submit.

Personally,

1. Probably not. It's a waste of time and resources to police a problem eBay poured gas on by instituting anonymous bidding.

2. Yes would be the ethical thing to say, but the can of worms opened in the process would probably be to much deal with.

3. The only question I could unequivocally agree I would do.

4. No, I'm in the business of selling cards and making money.

5. I would not go out of the way to do so, but if a customer who payed my mortgage the month before requested additional information I would make sure he/she received it.

[hangman62]

I agree

how about...don't bid on his stuff..if your uncomfortable with it

[markf31]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

If I ran my own eBay consignment company that had 500-1000 auctions going off weekly...

Business volume should not dictate ethics. Period.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by markf31

Business volume should not dictate ethics. Period.

It shouldn't, but I'm also a realist. Do I believe some of his auctions are shilled? Duh. Do I believe he is cognizant of the fact? Absolutely. Do I think it's his responsibility to do everything within his power to stop it? No. Collectors want to throw people like him under the bus because of a problem eBay magnified with anonymous bidding. Instead of "I avoid Probstein auctions" it should be "I avoid eBay" if you're all that worried about the ethics of buying and selling collectibles. If you want to close yourself off to the largest majority of the market (eBay) more power to you. I'll just worry about what I'm willing to pay, not what I end up paying because some dirtbag cosigner shills his own items. The guy is making a good living selling sports cards. Wish I could say the same.

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

How about:

6. Someone tells you what is happening with a specific auction and there is verifiable proof that a specific consignor has shill bid one or more auctions.

Tom C

That would fall under #3. Consigner wouldn't be conducting business with me in the future.

[jbbama]

i get pissed off when i see a card i want is his.......i refuse to bid. This shilling , or "bumping along" is a violation of TOS and shenanigans like this are all too common place with old Proby.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I'm not trying to be an apologist for Probstein (although sometimes I am), but I try to look at it this way:

If I ran my own eBay consignment company that had 500-1000 auctions going off weekly and almost a million in sales quarterly how many of these questions would I honestly answer yes to?

1. I would myself or salary someone to check all completed auctions for suspicious bidding.

2. I would alert bidders/auction winners about suspicious bidding.

3. I would prevent cosigners I believe are shilling from consigning in the future.

4. I would prevent auction winners from immediately consigning their winnings with me.

5. I would not provide my top customers with additional information such as scans or opinions on which cards might be worth a crack and re-submit.

Personally,

1. Probably not. It's a waste of time and resources to police a problem eBay poured gas on by instituting anonymous bidding.

2. Yes would be the ethical thing to say, but the can of worms opened in the process would probably be to much deal with.

3. The only question I could unequivocally agree I would do.

4. No, I'm in the business of selling cards and making money.

5. I would not go out of the way to do so, but if a customer who payed my mortgage the month before requested additional information I would make sure he/she received it.

How about:

6. Someone tells you what is happening with a specific auction and there is verifiable proof that a specific consignor has shill bid one or more auctions.

Tom C

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

How about:

6. Someone tells you what is happening with a specific auction and there is verifiable proof that a specific consignor has shill bid one or more auctions.

Tom C

Exactly! I don't think anybody realistically expects Probstein to police his own auctions, but I do think people expect to see something done when he's provided proof that his consignors are shilling.

If he would do something about it, he would earn my respect and my business. Until then, I'll stay away from his auctions.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Exactly! I don't think anybody realistically expects Probstein to police his own auctions, but I do think people expect to see something done when he's provided proof that his consignors are shilling.

If he would do something about it, he would earn my respect and my business. Until then, I'll stay away from his auctions.

Not to defend anyone, I'm just curious. I'm assuming you're talking about Joe P., has anyone been following his activity recently? I haven't. I'm curious to know if he's still at large.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Not to defend anyone, I'm just curious. I'm assuming you're talking about Joe P., has anyone been following his activity recently? I haven't. I'm curious to know if he's still at large.

Yes, mostly Joe P. No, I haven't been following his activity since eBay made it much harder by hiding usernames. However, there have been other consignors as well (such as the one the OP listed) that have been brought to Rick's attention, and he's failed to do anything about it.