Blatantly Hacked and Kudos to Rob Lifson PSA should be ashamed!

[jhs5120]

So honestly, no one here has a problem with 14 trimmed cards in PSA 8 holders entering the market?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

So honestly, no one here has a problem with 14 trimmed cards in PSA 8 holders entering the market?

Of course no one likes trimmed cards, in numerical holders, on the market. Maybe you should buy them all and send them into PSA for a re-evaluation?

[nolemmings]

I'm surprised that more of our experienced T206 group or advanced collectors have not weighed in on this. I don't collect the T206 set but even I know that the Harris collection has raised eyebrows for years. Here is a card from that collection auctioned by REA back in 2009, in which the same language is used to advise of a possible trim. Why all the outrage now?
http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2009/248.html

[jhs5120]

This is what happens!!!!


This card was sold by REA with the disclaimer, "In our opinion, this card has been very slightly trimmed at the top, though someone else could have a different opinion."

http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2009/248.html

Since then it has changed hands twice!

Once on ebay 6 months later for $1,893 TWICE THE AMOUNT PAID!!! DO you think it had a disclaimer? I doubt it.

And then it was sold again here:

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...-PSA-8-NM%2fMT

No disclaimer. Shame on Mile High, but shame on REA for KNOWING that this card is trimmed but allowing it to enter the market. Someone profited on this card because they got it for a bargain at REA and flipped it months later. How can anyone say that what REA is doing helps our hobby?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Because they have been assigned a numerical grade it opens the door wide open to future fraud, deception and theft....I know REA is doing what they can to inform the buyer, but these cards should not be sold in these holders.

OK so far, you've offered 2 solutions to stop them from being sold in these holders.

1 ) REA should refuse to sell them. Fine, REA can do that, but do you honestly think no one else will sell them? Especially if the INTENT is deceive?

2 ) REA should turn them in to PSA for re-evaluation. Again, REA does not OWN the cards so they can not legally do that without buyer consent.

So the onus still falls squarely on the seller and PSA. REA can do no more than what they are already doing.

They have offered their OPINION on the cards in question, and my guess is, they would have had to get the seller's consent to even do that.

Do you have any other logical options to what REA should do?

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Someone profited on this card because they got it for a bargain at REA and flipped it months later.

Thanks for proving your option 1 won't work.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by tschock

OK so far, you've offered 2 solutions to stop them from being sold in these holders.

1 ) REA should refuse to sell them. Fine, REA can do that, but do you honestly think no one else will sell them? Especially if the INTENT is deceive?

2 ) REA should turn them in to PSA for re-evaluation. Again, REA does not OWN the cards so they can not legally do that without buyer consent.

So the onus still falls squarely on the seller and PSA. REA can do no more than what they are already doing.

They have offered their OPINION on the cards in question, and my guess is, they would have had to get the seller's consent to even do that.

Do you have any other logical options to what REA should do?



Thanks for proving your option 1 won't work.

yeah, they can refuse to sell them if they are confident they are trimmed.

if someone else sells them, rea still did the right thing. just because the consignor can try to sell them somewhere else isnt rea's concern.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by travrosty

yeah, they can refuse to sell them if they are confident they are trimmed.

if someone else sells them, rea still did the right thing. just because the consignor can try to sell them somewhere else isnt rea's concern.

Please re-read the post and response.

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I know REA is doing what they can to inform the buyer, but these cards should not be sold in these holders.

Originally Posted by tschock

OK so far, you've offered 2 solutions to stop them from being sold in these holders.

REA refusing to sell them will not stop this, no matter how noble the (empty) gesture. Any questions?

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

This is what happens!!!!


This card was sold by REA with the disclaimer, "In our opinion, this card has been very slightly trimmed at the top, though someone else could have a different opinion."

http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2009/248.html

Since then it has changed hands twice!

Once on ebay 6 months later for $1,893 TWICE THE AMOUNT PAID!!! DO you think it had a disclaimer? I doubt it.

And then it was sold again here:

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...-PSA-8-NM%2fMT

No disclaimer. Shame on Mile High, but shame on REA for KNOWING that this card is trimmed but allowing it to enter the market. Someone profited on this card because they got it for a bargain at REA and flipped it months later. How can anyone say that what REA is doing helps our hobby?

I think the only solution is for you to bid and win these items from REA then it's off the market.. you can then get it graded properly...problem solved....

Ricky Y

[bobbyw8469]

I think the only solution is for you to bid and win these items from REA then it's off the market.. you can then get it graded properly...problem solved....

Ricky Y

Ricky, alot of people like to pass the buck. PSA does have a card guarantee. I know that I have submitted several cards under the card guarantee, and got rewarded with grading vouchers and the card returned in a lower grade case. I don't know of anyone else who has submitted under the "Grade Guarantee". If people have, I would love to hear about it!

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ricky, alot of people like to pass the buck. PSA does have a card guarantee. I know that I have submitted several cards under the card guarantee, and got rewarded with grading vouchers and the card returned in a lower grade case. I don't know of anyone else who has submitted under the "Grade Guarantee". If people have, I would love to hear about it!

why would you want a card in a lower grade case when people are busting cards out of their cases all the time trying to resubmit them to get a higher grade? Isn't getting a higher grade the point since it is all just subjective on their part anyway?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

So honestly, no one here has a problem with 14 trimmed cards in PSA 8 holders entering the market?

Let me ask you this. If the cards were not in PSA 8 holders and they were just selling 14 raw trimmed cards (that otherwise looked NM/MT) still describing them as trimmed, would you still have a problem?

Edited to clarify my question.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Leon

Of course no one likes trimmed cards, in numerical holders, on the market.

"From the responses given, no they don't."

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Let me ask you this. If the cards were not in PSA 8 holders and they were just selling 14 raw trimmed cards (that otherwise looked NM/MT) still describing them as trimmed, would you still have a problem?

No, I have no problem with an AH selling trimmed cards (as long as they're described as trimmed. My issue is that they have been assigned a numerical grade. If they weren't graded and just appeared NM-MT I wouldn't have a problem with it, I know that there's a market for it (I have a few trimmed t206's in my personal collection).

Because they have been assigned a numerical grade it opens the door wide open to future fraud, deception and theft. There are $500 worth of cards here, but they will sell for a combined $20,000 because no one is willing to take these off the market. I know REA is doing what they can to inform the buyer, but these cards should not be sold in these holders.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

So honestly, no one here has a problem with 14 trimmed cards in PSA 8 holders entering the market?

My brain hurts.

[CW]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

So honestly, no one here has a problem with 14 trimmed cards in PSA 8 holders entering the market?

That's the thing... they are already in the marketplace.

I don't have a problem with REA auctioning off these cards with the disclaimer. I have a problem with PSA grading these cards as Nm-Mt in the first place. PSA should buy these cards back -- it is their responsibility to get them "out of the market". I would be curious to hear their reply, if you could, please. Thanks for contacting them about the cards.

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