Speaking of Mick...

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Clark7781

I But Mr. I-don't-know-anyone-one-on-net54, they might need some more specifics.

So, to help our fellow forumite, from our experts, can you cite specifics why this autograph is no bueno...

Personally, I have a few thoughts as I would be hesitant, so please share yours.

Clark,
Many on the board often do not share specifics publicly.
The reason is that crooks read these boards and many don't want to give them any help improving their technique by showing them the keys to the sigs.
Many on here will be more willing to share via PM.

For myself, one of the big things with Mantle, and most other signatures, is flow. Often forgeries have a drawn appearance as opposed to free flowing signature.
Just my 2c.
Best,
Mark

[travrosty]

they are not reading these boards looking for tips... that's a myth.

[Clark7781]

Mark, you are 100% correct.

I am an avid collector of autographs. I have a nice sized collection and my focus over the years is IP 'graphs. In my younger years (1980s) I attended a good number of shows in Alantic City, where big names attended. I remember waiting in line with my father for Mickey Mantle. I didn't than know how great he was, other than my dad saying, "Quit bitching; we're waiting in this line..."

I remember they grey haired man signing the ball for us; I didn't appreciate this event until later in life: I met the great Mickey Mantle!

Over the years, as I educated myself on autographs, I learned about the little nuances of the signers techniques. Mantle has a few, which are stand outs if you know what you are looking for.

I am no expert, but am just trying to help a fellow forumite... Please don't take what I write anything more than that.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

they are not reading these boards looking for tips... that's a myth.

and I don't care if they do anyway. I always will try and spell it out for new collectors whenever I can. In this instance, there is not really much to discuss.

You just need to keep working and eventually, you can see these typical forgeries from a mile away.

Also, for the record, your just not going to pick up a Mantle signed photo for $50.00. That's your first tip that you are probably buying a forgery, trying to get a deal or something for nothing. No one is selling legitimate Mantle's for 50.00. If you want an authentic one. Plan on paying a minimum of $125-300, depending on the pose and the cert offered. $125 for No cert & up to $300+ for JSA, PSA and Upperdeck. Good Luck

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

they are not reading these boards looking for tips... that's a myth.

This is NOT a personal attack at all but I think you are wrong. Actually Travis, I kind of like you. You have great spirit. I have very first hand knowledge of many card doctors and thieves reading this board.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is NOT a personal attack at all but I think you are wrong. Actually Travis, I kind of like you. You have great spirit. I have very first hand knowledge of many card doctors and thieves reading this board.

In my opinion, it's dangerously naive to think forgers -- at least the good ones -- aren't always looking to perfect their craft.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show otherwise. After the Charlton Heston secretarial study was released on Autograph News Live, guess what? The forgers stopped copying the secretarial style and started copying the authentic style. Did that just happen by coincidence?

On CollectSpace a few posters spilled the beans on subtle traits they look for in Neil Armstrong autographs. Guess what? Within months we started seeing fakes with those same traits that never appeared before.

The forger who did all the Burczyk Mantle forgeries has altered his Mantle in the past few months. Did he do that for no reason or maybe because he was reading some "feedback" on his style here or elsewhere?

More than once Travis has espoused an attitude that forgers operate in an isolated silo scribbling lousy fakes that are all easily detected. This is simply not true.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

In my opinion, it's dangerously naive to think forgers -- at least the good ones -- aren't always looking to perfect their craft.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show otherwise. After the Charlton Heston secretarial study was released on Autograph News Live, guess what? The forgers stopped copying the secretarial style and started copying the authentic style. Did that just happen by coincidence?

On CollectSpace a few posters spilled the beans on subtle traits they look for in Neil Armstrong autographs. Guess what? Within months we started seeing fakes with those same traits that never appeared before.

The forger who did all the Burczyk Mantle forgeries has altered his Mantle in the past few months. Did he do that for no reason or maybe because he was reading some "feedback" on his style here or elsewhere?

More than once Travis has espoused an attitude that forgers operate in an isolated silo scribbling lousy fakes that are all easily detected. This is simply not true.

Well written, Mr. Zipper and right on the money.

It was about a month ago when we noticed the source of the Burczyk certed Mantle forgeries changed his Mantle forgeries. The irony being, they are more horrific than the original Mantle forgeries he produced.

The change happened due to sites like Net54 and AML.

[Clark7781]

Chris,

Thank you for not taking any offense to my post. I have followed your opinions avidly for a long time. Your opinion carries weight with me, so I thank you for all that you have done for the hobby.

I truly love this community. Helping each other out when help is asked for. You are all true gentleman and gentlemwomen.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Clark7781

Chris,

Thank you for not taking any offense to my post. I have followed your opinions avidly for a long time. Your opinion carries weight with me, so I thank you for all that you have done for the hobby.

I truly love this community. Helping each other out when help is asked for. You are all true gentleman and gentlemwomen.

Clark, your post was not offensive at all. I appreciate the opportunity to reply to your comment.

When I first started doing my YouTube videos back in October 2008, I always made it clear that my videos and blogs were never meant to be educational. I simply wanted to expose the sellers of forgeries. I have never profited a dime from the hobby. I am not a dealer. Sellers of forgeries need to be exposed. It cannot be tolerated.