Mastro and Allen Indicted

[ruth-gehrig]

Just something I've never seen before. Circumstantial evidence at a minimum; perhaps more? Wasn't it always speculated that Mastro had the card cut? If so why is Lipset selling it uncut??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Just something I've never seen before. Circumstantial evidence at a minimum; perhaps more? Wasn't it always speculated that Mastro had the card cut? If so why is Lipset selling it uncut??

I thought the Lipset one was the so-called Jumbo Wagner that ended up in a 5MC holder, but I could be wrong. I have never heard that Alan Ray -- who owned the raw PSA 8 before Mastro bought it -- got it from Lipset. I thought the known chain of custody ended with him.

[ruth-gehrig]

Ok Thanks! That does make more sense. I'm sure others will chime in on this as well.

[barrysloate]

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

[ruth-gehrig]

So when Lipset stated "probably the finest copy known to exist", he was unaware of the Wagner Lifson/Mastro bought? What happened to the Plank that was listed in ex-mt and Lajoie near mint??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

Ah thanks Barry. I have seen the HOF one but I don't recall it being particularly oversize. It was quite some time ago though.

How does PSA explain itself if it does that? Does it blame Bill Hughes? Fall on its sword and say our bad?

[bh3443]

Any one else see this video "Wagner testing".......... think it's from the Cobb/Edwards card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gItjwny1Zk

[RUSH2112]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

Is it possible the card may be worth more in it's original PSA 8 holder?

The slab is what makes the card infamous or famous, whichever you prefer and the developing story makes it more interesting to collectors as each day passes. Afterall, this is the card everyone is talking about, not the other ones that are technically a better grade.

[barrysloate]

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

[e107collector]

Let's say that the PSA 8 Wagner gets reholdered to a PSA Auth slab.

What is the next best Wagner available at that point? PSA 5?

Tony

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

+1

I’ve always said I find it sad and funny that the cornerstone of our hobby and the grading phenomenon is a well-known altered card.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

Well-said. Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this - how it affects the card's icon status, price, the hobby, etc.

[brookdodger55]

Maybe Calvindog Can answer this or anyone else with legal experience ?

If an item was put into Mastro's auction and illegal activity took place with inflated prices. Can the seller of the item who recieved an inflated price (Possibly
illegally) be subjected to a clawback of illegal profits that were realized. (Can what happened in the Bernie Madoff case happen in this case with illegal profits). Any info greatly appecieated.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

I have to say that this quote brought me to a cheering, applauding roar! I felt like I was in the thick of one of Mcgreevy's Spirited Speeches. Standing in the middle of Boston's 3rd Base pub with a pint in hand as Barry... Ahhmm, I mean McGreevy, sprayed the best ale all over anyone in his speaking path as he carried out this victorious volley of wisdom.

Nuf Ced...

[calvindog]

More investigations and arrests will clean the hobby up, unfortunately. Too much money to be made by fraud; the criminals need to believe there is a good chance they'll get caught and punished. End of story.