Mastro and Allen Indicted

[barrysloate]

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

[e107collector]

Let's say that the PSA 8 Wagner gets reholdered to a PSA Auth slab.

What is the next best Wagner available at that point? PSA 5?

Tony

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

+1

I’ve always said I find it sad and funny that the cornerstone of our hobby and the grading phenomenon is a well-known altered card.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

Well-said. Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this - how it affects the card's icon status, price, the hobby, etc.

[brookdodger55]

Maybe Calvindog Can answer this or anyone else with legal experience ?

If an item was put into Mastro's auction and illegal activity took place with inflated prices. Can the seller of the item who recieved an inflated price (Possibly
illegally) be subjected to a clawback of illegal profits that were realized. (Can what happened in the Bernie Madoff case happen in this case with illegal profits). Any info greatly appecieated.

[calvindog]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

That throws an Allen wrench into everything

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

Mastro must be petro-fied.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

When this is all over, Bill and Doug will be shills of their former selves.

[calvindog]

You never provided the punchline to your last joke last night. Is that nice? You've kept me in suspense for hours.

[base_ball]

I just dug this up. Yes, it's a lousy Photoshop job, but it wasn't for that reason that I got in trouble for posting it on this board shortly after the publication of "The Card." Well, it looks like we can now all agree that O.J. did it.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by brookdodger55

If an item was put into Mastro's auction and illegal activity took place with inflated prices. Can the seller of the item who recieved an inflated price (Possibly illegally) be subjected to a clawback of illegal profits that were realized. (Can what happened in the Bernie Madoff case happen in this case with illegal profits). Any info greatly appecieated.

I think that's a definite "yes". But it may be hard to collect the alleged overpayment. If an item was inflated by 20%, say from $100K to $120K, then the auction house roughly collected an extra $3K in fees. The consignor received the rest. The extra $3K in fees are likely gone now (salaries, rent, profit, etc.) except to the extent that the guilty persons are held personally liable. But if they got rich over the business, they got rich over the fees, not the overpayment. So the consignor has the rest, $17K in this example, and good luck going back to him.

[calvindog]

I don't imagine the government will be looking to 'clawback' any ill-gotten gains unless the consignors were in on the fraud.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

I have to say that this quote brought me to a cheering, applauding roar! I felt like I was in the thick of one of Mcgreevy's Spirited Speeches. Standing in the middle of Boston's 3rd Base pub with a pint in hand as Barry... Ahhmm, I mean McGreevy, sprayed the best ale all over anyone in his speaking path as he carried out this victorious volley of wisdom.

Nuf Ced...

[calvindog]

More investigations and arrests will clean the hobby up, unfortunately. Too much money to be made by fraud; the criminals need to believe there is a good chance they'll get caught and punished. End of story.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by calvindog

More investigations and arrests will clean the hobby up, unfortunately. Too much money to be made by fraud; the criminals need to believe there is a good chance they'll get caught and punished. End of story.

Now if they would go after Coaches Corner.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Now if they would go after Coaches Corner.

I am betting this is not the only high profile set of indictments that we will hear about. back in 2007-8 is the first I heard of this investigation. This may just be the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

[travrosty]

probably right, when they agree to cooperate, like mastro did, they are required to tell ALL about what they know about illegal activity 100%, no holding back. and the feds are serious about it. wayne bray had to spill the beans about everything he knew, and they made him aware that they werent going to tolerate him holding back. I am sure mastro was a wealth of information.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

probably right, when they agree to cooperate, like mastro did, they are required to tell ALL about what they know about illegal activity 100%, no holding back. and the feds are serious about it. wayne bray had to spill the beans about everything he knew, and they made him aware that they werent going to tolerate him holding back. I am sure mastro was a wealth of information.

How are they going to "require" someone to tell all? Maybe water boarding?How are they going to know if there is a shred of info not being told? My guess is the Feds base their decisions on what info is gained, not what is not gained. My understanding is that there are quite a few ex-employees that have given information. I think that is where a lot of it comes from....oh, and the subpoena's handed out....those probably rake in bit of info too. And the authorities probably talk to a lot of people in the hobby who aren't right in the middle of the issues. But these are all just educated guesses and maybe a tiny bit of first hand knowledge. As I told a good friend a few days ago, if I know something bad in the hobby, I have no issue sharing that with the proper authorities. I truly want this to be as clean of a hobby as is possible. I hope all of my friends feel the same way.