Black Swamp Find? Tell me more!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Okay, so you're saying there were way more cards, but pretty much everyone kept it secret as to how many there were, and are still doing it for the most part, despite there now really being no reason to not come out with the truth? And you're also saying that the stories about all these cards from the Find being pretty much pristine and in great condition is not true either? Otherwise, shouldn't there be way more E98 graded cards today in the 8-9-10 grades?

I don't doubt what you're telling the truth as you know it, but why all the friggin' secrecy? If the family that inherited the cards were so worried about possibly killing the market for them if they were all released at once, then why did they release the nicest condition cards first? If someone were sitting on that big of a collection, wouldn't it make more sense to want to slowly start and release some of the lower condition cards first? If the previous highest graded E98 cards ever graded had only been 7s, release some of the cards that were in the 5-6-7 range first. People would pay top dollar for those cards as they were close to the known highest condition E98 cards out there at that time. And then slowly in the coming months/years, progressively release some of the nicer and nicer cards as you go along, and try to hold onto the 9s and 10s till the last. Here's a case where going to someone like Heritage probably works against you. Despite them saying they were releasing these cards over time to maximize income to the family, I think it was more of Heritage wanting to get the word out about these cards and maximize money for themselves, in a short time frame. Of course, members of the family could have easily gone along and wanted to quickly max out what money they could receive from this inheritance as well, and that does make perfect sense and help justify what I think was otherwise maybe bad advice from Heritage on how to handle this Find. But is still doesn't even begin to explain why no one would eventually mention how many cards there really were in this Find then, unless that was part of the hold back and delay releasing them into the hobby tactic, to hopefully maximize and get even more money by spreading out the release of the cards and not letting people know how many there truly were. But again, if you're using that logic and thinking, why sell all the higher condition cards first? If someone just sold a couple first ever seen E98s graded 8, and they bring in record prices for E98 cards, just think what a couple 9s would then bring in the following year or so.

But you're certain that there were a lot more E98 cards in the find, and that there was a different dealer involved in buying a good chunk of the balance of the Find from the family. Okay, but the fact that I've never heard or seen anything about this before in any published articles or stories, and even you are hesitant to name the dealer involved in this so-called sale/purchase, just makes the whole thing seem really sketchy. You're basically saying to just believe the story on almost pure faith, with the only potential evidence to help support the claim being the number of E98 cards that are now graded. Even though the increased number of E98 cards being graded after the Black Swamp Find could also possibly be attributed to more people getting their E98 cards graded following the buzz and excitement of the Black Swamp Find, likely aided by many people now looking to possibly cash in on the prices these new to market E98s were bringing in, as well as just the natural increase/addition to the number of E98 cards that would have been sent in for grading anyway. It's not like people aren't constantly submitting other never before graded pre-war cards during this past decade or so either. I can see the underlying logic to the argument, but without really knowing the accurate number of E98 cards that were in the Black Swamp Find, and why there seems to be so much secrecy still around that, it is somewhat hard to solely attribute the graded card increase to primarily the Black Swamp Find alone. Something doesn't smell right, there shouldn't be all this secrecy about the number of cards in the Find, at least it hasn't been necessary for any reason I can think of for quite a few years now. Like ai said, I don't doubt you at all, but something still doesn't make sense to me. Oh well.

Hopefully I will hit on everything you wrote/asked. I am not asking you to just believe me because you do not know me and I am not even trying to convince you. Only trying to share what is appropriate for me to share based on what I have been told. The dealer who bought the back half of the collection from the family is a member here as I have seen him post at one time. The guy who ended up with them, from him, and blowing up the pop report even more than it already was, is Evan Mathis. The dealer who told me about the back half of the BSF was brought in as a consultant before the cards were sold to Mathis. He is not someone who would make up something like this or lie to me. Further when he told me I was taken aback and relieved I did not make my BSF purchases.

I have no idea when the cards were divided up and if the family did it on their own or with Heritage and for all I know Heritage was only told about the 750 that they got. I have no idea how the back half of the cards graded as a whole but from what I was told..yeah I know...the condition of the cards was similar to the initial find. There were some lower grade cards that had stains on the back, poorly centered cards and cards with indentations and corner dings from storage but there were plenty of 8s and better.

I cannot speak for Heritage, the family or anyone else involved so I have no idea why it was kept quiet that there were twice as many cards in the find as initially reported. What I know is that Evan Mathis was grading and selling these and they were not cards he bought out of Heritage. I really think the family who held them had every intention of keeping them but then decided to cash out when they saw the numbers that were achieved. If Heritage knew this I guess it is for each of us to decide if we were mislead.

I think if you look at the pop report it would be easy to conclude that it was not 1s through 3s that were being graded since 2012 but 5s and above and the majority of the 4,000 cards graded are 5 and above. I have not looked that closely at the pop figures but glancing at them it appeared to look that way.