Not the only Hall of Fame getting Watered Down

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by BobC

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!

KISS has made so many great songs. I have been listening to them since 1977 and many songs I would guess I have heard 1000 times and they never get old. KISS is the Babe Ruth of the R&R HOF.