CGC Cards Article on E104-1 Swift's Variety Shop

[Leon]

CGC cards did a nice article, with a bit of collaboration from Rick C. and I. I thought it came out really well. It's great to see a TPG do the right thing with the stamps and flips. I honestly doubt the other TPG's have the experience or aptitude to do this. I can't wait for their larger holders to come out in the next month or two. Great job to the CGC team for this....

https://www.cgccards.com/news/articl...6-6d4b2580337e

[boneheadandrube]

Is this a paid promotion?

[4815162342]

Great story (and find of course), Leon, and great job by CGC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Leon]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Is this a paid promotion?

No. Just showing what a grading company can do with expert graders.
BTW, except for Burdick already saying these were put out by Blanke Wenneker (Nadja Caramels) I would suggest a case could be made to call these E104 Swifts. In my experience there are far more Swift Cards than Nadjas....


.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Cool article, Leon. Those cards look nice in the slabs too.

I know I've seen swift stamps on other issues too but I can't place it right now.

[boneheadandrube]

I like that CSG uses the plastic sleeve insert. It adds valuable protection for the cards when I'm cracking them out of their slabs to send them to another grading comapany. It helps ensure that I can flip the cards for a profit after they are re-slabbed into a more collectible holder.

[calvindog]

Lololololol

Dude.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I agree, CGC has demonstrated time and again that they are more than willing to put in the time and independent research needed to identify the more obscure issues and variations. I cannot say the same thing for PSA, SGC or Beckett these days. Things might have been different in the past but we are now in the present.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

I agree, CGC has demonstrated time and again that they are more than willing to put in the time and independent research needed to identify the more obscure issues and variations. I cannot say the same thing for PSA, SGC or Beckett these days. Things might have been different in the past but we are now in the present.

This is definitely the Andy Broome factor because he did that too at Beckett. I have found SGC to be very reasonable in being willing to research obscurities too. PSA is not the least bit flexible to the average submitter.

Anyway, count me in as someone who likes what CSG is and has been doing.

[ullmandds]

csg was only co. willing to grade this.

[calvindog]

Pete, can I see a scan of it graded? I have one raw and I’d like to get it put into a holder.

[ullmandds]

Not to hijack this thread, or turn it into an advertisement, but I think it's too late for that.

I think it has always been ridiculous. That companies like PSA and SGC have refused to grade certain issues for whatever reasons they choose like these examples shown they're obviously real cards. All I want is an authentic and a slab. I was very happy with the whole experience with CSG from start to finish which only took a few weeks maybe a year and a half ago..

[calvindog]

What’s with those defunct flips, Pete?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What’s with those defunct flips, Pete?

Whatchutalkinboutwillis?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Whatchutalkinboutwillis?

From the CGC website....

Posted on 6/20/2023

CGC Cards will instantly be one of the biggest players in the card market, providing expert and impartial certification for virtually all cards — including TCGs, sports cards and non-sports cards — under the renowned CGC brand.

The Certified Collectibles Group® (CCG®) is playing to win with a major announcement in the card market. In July, CCG will combine CGC Trading Cards® and Certified Sports Guaranty® (CSG®) into CGC Cards™, solidifying its position as one of the world’s largest and most prominent card grading services. Grading virtually all TCGs, sports cards and non-sports cards, CGC Cards will also feature a number of collector-friendly upgrades, including non-member submissions, a Gem Mint 10 grade and a sleek new label that blends seamlessly with cards.


.

[Leon]

As was mentioned in the article, the 2 different flips for the different Swift's backs went above and beyond!
I think the Variety Shop ones will be a bit more valuable to me and the other guy that cares.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

This is definitely the Andy Broome factor because he did that too at Beckett. I have found SGC to be very reasonable in being willing to research obscurities too. PSA is not the least bit flexible to the average submitter.

Anyway, count me in as someone who likes what CSG is and has been doing.

[ValKehl]

A few months ago, I sent my W551 of WaJo with it's WOOL'S AMERICAN-MAID BREAD back, which I acquired 25-30 years ago, to SGC to be slabbed. Much to my disappointment (actually, I'm pissed!), SGC did not note Wool's Bread on the flip. When I inquired as to why not, the SGC rep merely told me that SGC is no longer doing this. Mind you, several months earlier I had asked a SGC rep if SGC would note this on the flip, as there are several Wool's Bread cards in the SGC pop report and I happen to have a Wally Pipp example in my collection, and he responded that he couldn't see any reason why SGC wouldn't. I'm now wondering if I were to send WaJo to CGC if I would have the same success Leon has had with his Swift's cards.

[Leon]

They will grade them, Val. Andy and I had the back stamp discussion very recently, concerning the E104s.

And they won't put "hand cut" on flips where, the specific cards aren't hand cut, and the whole hobby has known forever that the series isn't hand cut (unless trimmed).. W503, W575-1 etc...
Whomever is still making those errors needs to quit their foolishness.

Originally Posted by ValKehl

A few months ago, I sent my W551 of WaJo with it's WOOL'S AMERICAN-MAID BREAD back, which I acquired 25-30 years ago, to SGC to be slabbed. Much to my disappointment (actually, I'm pissed!), SGC did not note Wool's Bread on the flip. When I inquired as to why not, the SGC rep merely told me that SGC is no longer doing this. Mind you, several months earlier I had asked a SGC rep if SGC would note this on the flip, as there are several Wool's Bread cards in the SGC pop report and I happen to have a Wally Pipp example in my collection, and he responded that he couldn't see any reason why SGC wouldn't. I'm now wondering if I were to send WaJo to CGC if I would have the same success Leon has had with his Swift's cards.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

A few months ago, I sent my W551 of WaJo with it's WOOL'S AMERICAN-MAID BREAD back, which I acquired 25-30 years ago, to SGC to be slabbed. Much to my disappointment (actually, I'm pissed!), SGC did not note Wool's Bread on the flip. When I inquired as to why not, the SGC rep merely told me that SGC is no longer doing this. Mind you, several months earlier I had asked a SGC rep if SGC would note this on the flip, as there are several Wool's Bread cards in the SGC pop report and I happen to have a Wally Pipp example in my collection, and he responded that he couldn't see any reason why SGC wouldn't. I'm now wondering if I were to send WaJo to CGC if I would have the same success Leon has had with his Swift's cards.

Leon's response, in part, to my post was: "They will grade them, Val. Andy and I had the back stamp discussion very recently, concerning the E104s."

Further to my effort to get a TPG to note "Wool's Bread" on their flip, on March 9th, I sent an inquiry to CGC via their online inquiry form, which does not allow one to include pics. On March 12th, CGC Customer Service responded via email, "Unfortunately, this is not a designation we would add to the label." I quickly responded, expressing my disappointment and sending pics of the my two Wool's Bread cards, and also I said "What makes this CGC response so puzzling to me is that recently CGC graded a couple/few E104-1 cards with the Swift/Swift's back stamp AND NOTED THIS ON THE LABELS!" Today, CGC Customer Service responded as follows: "Thanks for your patience. I have reviewed this with our head grading team. After further discussion I am happy to confirm we would designate this "Wool's Bread" on the label." MANY KUDOS TO CGC, and thanks, Leon, for encouraging me to contact CGC.

[Jobu]

Does anyone know what the inner sleeve material is? I looks like maybe it is mylar - which is something I have been wishing graders would do for a long time over the regular cheap plastic they use. It would be even better if it was sealed to protect against off-gassing from the other plastics in the holders, but even if it isn't sealed, it will be a good start.

(Yes I checked their site and no I didn't find specifics: https://www.cgccards.com/card-grading/holder-label/)

[brianp-beme]

I do expect CGC to exact swift attribution (retribution?), or at least send me some of those inner sleeves for originally tracking down the Swift Variety Store info used in their article, info that I posted in the original thread about these cards shortly after they sold on Ebay. Reposted here for posteriors like me.


11-27-2023, 03:12 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar

Member

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,475

Here is a 1911 pharmacy trade publication article in THE SPATULA about Swift's Variety Store that I found while I googled all over my keyboard.

swift's.jpg

Note that the street address on the full store name stamp is slightly different...242 W. 23rd St. versus 244 W. 23rd St. Sounds like at some point around this time frame that "This quaint store" moved next door.


Brian (wearing a different style of inner sleeve underneath my shirt as I type this parenthetical line)

[Pato15]

Are the cards with the Swift's stamp known with both fronts? Or just the World Champions?

[gabrinus]

All I've ever seen/owned with the Swift stamp have had the World Champions on front...I don't think I ever owned any with the full address before, though...Jerry

[Pato15]

Originally Posted by gabrinus

All I've ever seen/owned with the Swift stamp have had the World Champions on front...I don't think I ever owned any with the full address before, though...Jerry

Thanks!

[ricktmd]

Here is an article I found in Los Angeles Herald from June of 1911 about Swift's Variety Shop. This article has an image of the store. Similar to the Spatula Article, Horace Swift got at least two pieces of press from selling Postage Stamps. A lost leader to attract patrons the idea got more free advertising (with the two articles found to date) then even Swift could have imagined, I'm sure. While the article does not mention Baseball cards the fact that there is an image of the store from 1911 is a great find. I imagine I can get to the original archive and possibly a better image of the store. Variety Shop is easy to read, and it appears that there may be a perpendicular sign cutting through the "h" in the word shop that likely say Swift's. Both addresses seen on the baseball card back stamp are used in the central text box in this article.

[rjackson44]

Great looking cards

[Leon]

Cool article, Rick. Nice research and thanks for posting it.

Originally Posted by ricktmd

Here is an article I found in Los Angeles Herald from June of 1911 about Swift's Variety Shop. This article has an image of the store. Similar to the Spatula Article, Horace Swift got at least two pieces of press from selling Postage Stamps. A lost leader to attract patrons the idea got more free advertising (with the two articles found to date) then even Swift could have imagined, I'm sure. While the article does not mention Baseball cards the fact that there is an image of the store from 1911 is a great find. I imagine I can get to the original archive and possibly a better image of the store. Variety Shop is easy to read, and it appears that there may be a perpendicular sign cutting through the "h" in the word shop that likely say Swift's. Both addresses seen on the baseball card back stamp are used in the central text box in this article.

[riggs336]

CSG was the only company willing to grade this Cobb. Bless their hsarts.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Leon's response, in part, to my post was: "They will grade them, Val. Andy and I had the back stamp discussion very recently, concerning the E104s."

Further to my effort to get a TPG to note "Wool's Bread" on their flip, on March 9th, I sent an inquiry to CGC via their online inquiry form, which does not allow one to include pics. On March 12th, CGC Customer Service responded via email, "Unfortunately, this is not a designation we would add to the label." I quickly responded, expressing my disappointment and sending pics of the my two Wool's Bread cards, and also I said "What makes this CGC response so puzzling to me is that recently CGC graded a couple/few E104-1 cards with the Swift/Swift's back stamp AND NOTED THIS ON THE LABELS!" Today, CGC Customer Service responded as follows: "Thanks for your patience. I have reviewed this with our head grading team. After further discussion I am happy to confirm we would designate this "Wool's Bread" on the label." MANY KUDOS TO CGC, and thanks, Leon, for encouraging me to contact CGC.

Great news! I have one to submit somewhere and now I know where to send it.

[gabrinus]

Those cards with the full address are cool...Jerry

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Couldn’t they be d359 Swift’s?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

Couldn’t they be d359 Swift’s?

Probably not.
I usually think of it being all about the distributor and not who made the physical card, as to the ACC number. The D359s were distributed by bread and baking companies.(unless they have Nadja backs). So, technically I guess the E104 blank backs should be H's...and not E104. The Swifts should really be an H, for advertising.
.

[ValKehl]

In post #17 of this thread, I lamented that SGC would not note "Wool's Bread" on the label of the W551 card of WaJo with this ad back I gave SGC to slab. An SCG rep advised me that SGC will no longer note "Wool's Bread" on its labels, despite having done so in the past. At Leon's urging, I contacted CGC, and their rep said that CGC will note "Wool's Bread" on its label.

Now, I have received further bad news from SGC. Very recently, I won this W575-1 card of Roger Peckinpaugh in an auction. It has a "Henry A. Johnson" advertising back stamp which is NOT noted on the SGC label, which I believe is a newer SGC label. In the past, I have seen numerous cards in SGC slabs for which both "W575-1" and "Henry A. Johnson" are noted on the labels; in fact, I have examples of such card of Sam Rice and Walter Johnson in my collection. I contacted SGC about this saying, "I'm hoping that the absence of the 'Henry A. Johnson' notation on the label of my Peckingpaugh card is merely a labeling oversight and that I may submit this card to SGC for label correction at the next Chantilly Show; is my hope correct?" I assume SGC will not have a problem with my posting SGC's response and our further communication, as follows:

"Hi Val, I just spoke with Grading to confirm, we are no longer referencing Henry A Johnson stamped backs on our labels."

"Hi Brent, I have never dealt with PSA, but I am aware that both PSA and SGC are owned by the same parent company. I sense that SGC is no longer referencing any stamped backs on its labels - right? Do you happen to know if PSA now has this same policy?"

"Hi Val, that is correct. We are no longer referencing stamped backs on the labels. I'm not sure if PSA is operating under the same policy. We are both under the Collectors umbrella but operate independently of one another. You can reach out to them if you wish."

So, the bottom line is, don't send your cards with ads stamped on the backs to SGC if you want to have the advertisers noted on the labels. Another back-stamp advertiser that SGC has noted on its labels in the past is Keating Candy, such as the WaJo card below. There are likely other back stamps that don't instantly come to mind.

[Leon]

At the end of the day I don't think SGC knows how to grade the stamped backs. They have made a lot of mistakes over the years. It's probably good they got out of grading them.

Originally Posted by ValKehl

In post #17 of this thread, I lamented that SGC would not note "Wool's Bread" on the label of the W551 card of WaJo with this ad back I gave SGC to slab. An SCG rep advised me that SGC will no longer note "Wool's Bread" on its labels, despite having done so in the past. At Leon's urging, I contacted CGC, and their rep said that CGC will note "Wool's Bread" on its label.

Now, I have received further bad news from SGC. Very recently, I won this W575-1 card of Roger Peckinpaugh in an auction. It has a "Henry A. Johnson" advertising back stamp which is NOT noted on the SGC label, which I believe is a newer SGC label. In the past, I have seen numerous cards in SGC slabs for which both "W575-1" and "Henry A. Johnson" are noted on the labels; in fact, I have examples of such card of Sam Rice and Walter Johnson in my collection. I contacted SGC about this saying, "I'm hoping that the absence of the 'Henry A. Johnson' notation on the label of my Peckingpaugh card is merely a labeling oversight and that I may submit this card to SGC for label correction at the next Chantilly Show; is my hope correct?" I assume SGC will not have a problem with my posting SGC's response and our further communication, as follows:

"Hi Val, I just spoke with Grading to confirm, we are no longer referencing Henry A Johnson stamped backs on our labels."

"Hi Brent, I have never dealt with PSA, but I am aware that both PSA and SGC are owned by the same parent company. I sense that SGC is no longer referencing any stamped backs on its labels - right? Do you happen to know if PSA now has this same policy?"

"Hi Val, that is correct. We are no longer referencing stamped backs on the labels. I'm not sure if PSA is operating under the same policy. We are both under the Collectors umbrella but operate independently of one another. You can reach out to them if you wish."

So, the bottom line is, don't send your cards with ads stamped on the backs to SGC if you want to have the advertisers noted on the labels. Another back-stamp advertiser that SGC has noted on its labels in the past is Keating Candy, such as the WaJo card below. There are likely other back stamps that don't instantly come to mind.