SGG at the National - Onsite Grading?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Agree. And the lack of a registry continues to boggle my mind.

As part of my monthly nagging that I do to them, I gave them Hell again about the registry while in Chantilly last week.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

As part of my monthly nagging that I do to them, I gave them Hell again about the registry while in Chantilly last week.

What was the response?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Web developers and server admins cost money. They can't just give them $20 per hour and put them through a 5 hour training course like they can with graders. Who knew?

The bigger problem was the story we were fed by SGC that a new one was coming. What you said may be true, but then don't promise a new one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The bigger problem was the story we were fed by SGC that a new one was coming. What you said may be true, but then don't promise a new one.

They promised me they were just tinkering with the wording of their guarantee and it would be back on the website shortly. This was, maybe three plus years ago.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They promised me they were just tinkering with the wording of their guarantee and it would be back on the website shortly. This was, maybe three plus years ago.

Which is worse?

No guarantee, or a meaningless guarantee?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Which is worse?

No guarantee, or a meaningless guarantee?

And therefore what? It was OK to drop the guarantee and lie about it? I am not sure I see your point.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And therefore what? It was OK to drop the guarantee and lie about it? I am not sure I see your point.

HA. It was intended to be a primarily rhetorical question.

And to highlight that the existing guarantees we do have in this industry don’t mean anything. Ergo, the loss of the guarantee doesn’t seem to be a particularly terrible loss.

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Parkplace- I’m surprised that you are surprised. SGC has a reputation for very quick returns that is well deserved. The National does nothing but impede their best attribute while adding logistical nightmares. They are staying true to their model. There will be people lining up at PSA, very likely for outrageous in-house prices and very questionable results. That’s not SGC. Trent King

Trent got it absolutely right. If the objective is to make a profit, how can they possibly offer grading at a reduced price while paying for all the logistical and infastructure costs associated with on-site grading?

I just attended the Long Beach Expo last weekend where PSA offered on-site grading, drop off, and on-site autograph authentication. Here are a couple of my takeaways:

Cost: Cheapest was Express - $150 per card

Forms: All forms were to be completed on-line prior to the show and brought with the item for turn in. (I like this but will explain the problem later)

Lines: There was one line only to get to CS. The line was a mix for everything; drop off, pick up, grading, autograph authentication, etc.

Here are some observations.

Since there weren't separate lines for pick up and drop off, a big bottleneck occurred. The gentleman in front of me failed to prepare a turn in form to have his cards graded. After waiting in line for about 45 minutes, he had to leave the line - find a public computer to prepare his form (PSA didn't have one for public use), print off his form, get back in line and go through the process again. That's just to get to CS. (Yes, I know he should have followed the rules, but sometimes people don't read, or understand, the fine print).

There weren't sufficient graders, authenticators, or space on-site to handle the volume. One gentleman turned in numerous autographed guitars to be authenticated. There wasn't adequate space for storage, so they were moved to PSA's home office area for storage, etc. Keep in mind that PSA authenticates numerous other items at these events other than cards.

Customers, at least me, weren't notified when our items were ready for pick-up, which would have made the process more enjoyable.

From a manpower perspective it may not be feasible, but at these large events if they could be categorized by category, drop off, pick up and more thought given to customer flow it sure would make things easier.

Back to SGC. If the bottom line doesn't allow them to offer on-site grading, I don't think it is going to hurt their business model in the slightest. They currently offer great turnaround times at an affordable cost and do an acceptable job of grading. Why would they want to offer something that could possibly cause more harm than good and lose money in the process.

Just a few thoughts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

HA. It was intended to be a primarily rhetorical question.

And to highlight that the existing guarantees we do have in this industry don’t mean anything. Ergo, the loss of the guarantee doesn’t seem to be a particularly terrible loss.

It's not, but I did not like the attitude or the disingenuousness.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not, but I did not like the attitude or the disingenuousness.

If you will indulge me further, perhaps you could share why you feel the erstwhile guarantee would be meaningful, were it to be reinstated?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not, but I did not like the attitude or the disingenuousness.

Wasn't this also around the time where SGC closed up the autograph authentication portion of their business after it was discovered that they had authenticated forged sigs on T206s? This way they did not have to write checks. Classy move.

Once again, the hobby forgives these types of actions by the TPG. We all bitch and moan about how strict they are, how unfair it is, how horrible it is they grade altered cards and refuse to buy them back, how expensive it is to grade or how long the wait is and now we are upset SGC will not show up to the National yet most or all of us forgive them for all of this and send them more money. There is nothing that they could do that would stop us from sending them more money.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Wasn't this also around the time where SGC closed up the autograph authentication portion of their business after it was discovered that they had authenticated forged sigs on T206s? This way they did not have to write checks. Classy move.

Once again, the hobby forgives these types of actions by the TPG. We all bitch and moan about how strict they are, how unfair it is, how horrible it is they grade altered cards and refuse to buy them back, how expensive it is to grade or how long the wait is and now we are upset SGC will not show up to the National yet most or all of us forgive them for all of this and send them more money. There is nothing that they could do that would stop us from sending them more money.

Seems like a nice business to be in!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

If you will indulge me further, perhaps you could share why you feel the erstwhile guarantee would be meaningful, were it to be reinstated?

Unlike PSA where the horror stories are legion, I had never heard of SGC not honoring the "erstwhile" guarantee. And it was the middle third of the company's NAME for god's sake. So yeah trashing it was a big deal IMO.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Unlike PSA where the horror stories are legion, I had never heard of SGC not honoring the "erstwhile" guarantee. And it was the middle third of the company's NAME for god's sake. So yeah trashing it was a big deal IMO.

Gotcha. I wasn’t familiar with the backstory that SGC had historically honored the guarantee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Gotcha. I wasn’t familiar with the backstory that SGC had historically honored the guarantee.

Evidently they were concerned about all the altered cards being outed and wanted off the hook. Brazen move IMO, but with their loyal fanbase they rightly figured nobody would care.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Evidently they were concerned about all the altered cards being outed and wanted off the hook. Brazen move IMO, but with their loyal fanbase they rightly figured nobody would care.

Another rhetorical question not entirely intended to make your blood boil:

Is it better to eliminate a guarantee, or keep it and just decline to honor it?

I suppose those are the two outcomes we’ve seen, and it seems like the collective response has been a shrug, although some around here have noisily expressed their dissatisfaction with those outcomes.

[ClementeFanOh]

Another question, not rhetorical- wasn't the topic the "controversy" of SGC
not grading at the National? We've reached Groundhog Day status, folks.

Trent King

[Snapolit1]

Do people think that if they kiss ass on grading companies in a public forum they might potentially get better grades down the road?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Do people think that if they kiss ass on grading companies in a public forum they might potentially get better grades down the road?

LOL! They might think that but what they fail to take into account is that the grading companies likely do not read this drivel. They would if we stopped sending them our cards but that happens a day after never.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Another question, not rhetorical- wasn't the topic the "controversy" of SGC
not grading at the National? We've reached Groundhog Day status, folks.

Trent King

Embrace the journey, Trent!!

Just because we start complaining about one thing doesn’t mean that we should be constrained to narrowly limit our lamentations to within the confines of the original source of our bellyaching. We need room to roam and fully explore all of our avenues for dissatisfaction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Another rhetorical question not entirely intended to make your blood boil:

Is it better to eliminate a guarantee, or keep it and just decline to honor it?

I suppose those are the two outcomes we’ve seen, and it seems like the collective response has been a shrug, although some around here have noisily expressed their dissatisfaction with those outcomes.

Well, at least openly eliminating it has the virtue of candor, so i would say that's marginally better.

[Snowman]

Anyone who followed the BODA threads and who is tuned into the extent to which altered cards actually permeate this hobby should have been able to predict the dissolution of any guarantee program that any of the TPGs pretended to offer. Just add up the total value of their potential exposure and compare that against their valuations as companies. They don't really have a choice here if they wish to remain in business.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Do people think that if they kiss ass on grading companies in a public forum they might potentially get better grades down the road?

Not necessarily , but I was contacted by a board member years ago who told me he doesn’t comment on grading companies at all. Too many eyes on the board he said.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Not necessarily , but I was contacted by a board member years ago who told me he doesn’t comment on grading companies at all. Too many eyes on the board he said.

They 100% monitor these boards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Anyone who followed the BODA threads and who is tuned into the extent to which altered cards actually permeate this hobby should have been able to predict the dissolution of any guarantee program that any of the TPGs pretended to offer. Just add up the total value of their potential exposure and compare that against their valuations as companies. They don't really have a choice here if they wish to remain in business.

What a sad commentary on third party grading, if the companies cannot even afford to stand behind their services. Imagine a car manufacturer that could not afford to offer a warranty. But in the hobby, where stuff, and flips, trump all, nothing seems to matter.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What a sad commentary on third party grading, if the companies cannot even afford to stand behind their services. Imagine a car manufacturer that could not afford to offer a warranty. But in the hobby, where stuff, and flips, trump all, nothing seems to matter.

True and sad.

Can anyone get ahold of Peter to get an update? Again, just some conjecture on the post, no actual response from SGC.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Someone (that I don't know) just posted in a good, and usually reputable, private Facebook group that SGC is grading on site...

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

that SGC is grading on site...

Does SGC know this?

[theshowandme]

raw card review does not count


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[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

What was the response?

They said that after every show, they have a sit-down to discuss customer concerns that were brought up at the show and the registry is always among the the top three things mentioned. They understand collectors want it, but I don’t know that they had a solid reply beyond that.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Someone (that I don't know) just posted in a good, and usually reputable, private Facebook group that SGC is grading on site...

Keeping it a secret as long as possible???

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Keeping it a secret as long as possible???

Mysteries do not help companies.

[Johnny630]

There is no Mystery, SGC does not wanna grade on site, ownership is content and does things his way. Their business will be fine, won’t improve but won’t fall either. It’s business and usual.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by raulus

Fixed it for you.

And here lies the problem people
Pretending everything is the same because it’s easier than admitting the truth.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

And here lies the problem people
Pretending everything is the same because it’s easier than admitting the truth.

With respect, while I can see why you would interpret my comments in this fashion, that is not what I was suggesting.

And since politics is a banned topic, that will have to be it.

[parkplace33]

https://www.psacard.com/resources/showdetail/461

PSA posted what their plans are at the National.

https://www.beckett-authentication.com/resources/events

Beckett as well.

[Yoda]

SGC will never be able to really compete with PSA unless they integrate a POP Count and Set Registry into their business platform. It is clearly something that submitters want and without these features they suffer. Maybe they are just content to slide along and be happy with 2nd place.
I suspect one of their problems is insufficient or inaccurate data.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Yoda

SGC will never be able to really compete with PSA unless they integrate a POP Count and Set Registry into their business platform. It is clearly something that submitters want and without these features they suffer. Maybe they are just content to slide along and be happy with 2nd place.
I suspect one of their problems is insufficient or inaccurate data.

When they changed the cert number system and their original grading scale, the registry all went to hell. Worst move they ever made.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

When they changed the cert number system and their original grading scale, the registry all went to hell. Worst move they ever made.

They didn't want people making connections about cards being in the same sub, that was painfully obvious. Part of fraud proofing the company, along with trashing the G in SGC. stopping autograph authentication, making clear the owner and employees were submitting, etc.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They didn't want people making connections about cards being in the same sub, that was painfully obvious. Part of fraud proofing the company, along with trashing the G in SGC. stopping autograph authentication, making clear the owner and employees were submitting, etc.

. So long as the E-Bay listing seller disclaims way down in the description area , that the seller of said listed card is employed by the company which applied the grade and label to the card being sold , then what could possibly go wrong ? You all need to have faith in the people in our hobby. Many of them are fairly honest sometimes.


..

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They didn't want people making connections about cards being in the same sub, that was painfully obvious. Part of fraud proofing the company, along with trashing the G in SGC. stopping autograph authentication, making clear the owner and employees were submitting, etc.

Damn that is pretty overt and in your face. Hilarious that the fanboys feel no shame in the open support of a company whose allegiances are with that aspect of the hobby. PSA is not much better if they are even better at all in any respect.

What does that tell you about the state of the hobby that this is where the top 2 authentication services stand?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Damn that is pretty overt and in your face. Hilarious that the fanboys feel no shame in the open support of a company whose allegiances are with that aspect of the hobby. PSA is not much better if they are even better at all in any respect.

What does that tell you about the state of the hobby that this is where the top 2 authentication services stand?

The fanboys never seem to address these points. Quick turnaround, within two grades of accurate, is all that matters.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The fanboys never seem to address these points. Quick turnaround, within two grades of accurate, is all that matters.

An yes...just like the cheap and fast shipping that PWCC used to provide. Did not matter they were knee deep in fraud and the cards these guys were buying had been shaved, etc.

[theshowandme]

Anyone else submit in person at Chantilly?

Dropped off on 6/24 in person and still no movement on the submission


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[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They didn't want people making connections about cards being in the same sub, that was painfully obvious. Part of fraud proofing the company, along with trashing the G in SGC. stopping autograph authentication, making clear the owner and employees were submitting, etc.

Bingo you said it and that's that. Do they think we are that stupid?

John Marsili

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Bingo you said it and that's that. Do they think we are that stupid?

John Marsili

We are that stupid.

[packs]

What does a registry really do for anyone? All these posts and mantras about buying the card and not the holder, or putting down registry hounds for paying absurd prices for half grades, an there are still all these complaints about a registry so you can do the same things.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by packs

What does a registry really do for anyone? All these posts and mantras about buying the card and not the holder, or putting down registry hounds for paying absurd prices for half grades, an there are still all these complaints about a registry so you can do the same things.

People are hooked on the registry... it's uniformity, it's bragging rights, it's egos, the list goes on and and for what it does for people.

Registry and Pop both of which PSA Owns, are the SYNOPSIS with the Industry across the board. It's liquid Gold.

[packs]

I know that but every day there are people on the board swimming against that tide only to be in this thread looking for a registry from SGC.

[Leon]

My ocd self, I'd just be happy to have the title of this thread be correctly spelled. It's the little things in life....

.
And a card in an sgc holder. Could be a 9 in the right hands and still be oversized !