There goes the Judge

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://sports.yahoo.com/aaron-judge...l?guccounter=1

Yet another extended injury. As many predicted when all the talk was of the HR record and the absurd money he was commanding.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://sports.yahoo.com/aaron-judge...l?guccounter=1

Yet another extended injury. As many predicted when all the talk was of the HR record and the absurd money he was commanding.

Well, to be fair, this was a freak injury

[BobbyStrawberry]

He was perennially injured prior to his big contract year, so no surprise to me. Not a great time to be a New York baseball fan right now!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Well, to be fair, this was a freak injury

Yes for sure but with him it's been one thing after another. Just a shame because he is such a prolific power hitter not to mention a seemingly wonderful guy.

[D. Bergin]

Sigh.....

They are absolutely horrible without him in the lineup.

That was pretty sh*tty that the wall in Dodger Stadium just gave out on him like that. I don't care how big the guy is, that gate had to be improperly locked for him to fall through it like that.

Made for a good highlight, but ultimately a sh*tty outcome.

[Exhibitman]

Hope everyone sold their 1/1 rookie first card pre-law sparkly shiny refractor plastic volleyball beach special pre-birth one-of-one Walmart/KMart/Walgreens/Target red white and blue ice crackle cards...

[mrreality68]

I cannot blame this on his past injury history. He was healthy (as he was last year) and he was having a great start to the year both offensively and defensively. But then he made a great play but smash against the wall and smashed his toe.

It was sad and it was freakish.

Worst part is he is so valuable to his team when he is not there the teams does not have the depth of lineup to makeup for his absence.

The team will be able to stay above .500 ball and should limp into the playoffs but I cannot see them doing much from there

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hope everyone sold their 1/1 rookie first card pre-law sparkly shiny refractor plastic volleyball beach special pre-birth one-of-one Walmart/KMart/Walgreens/Target red white and blue ice crackle cards...

Not just yet, but then I never had them to begin with. So either I am ahead or at break even.

[packs]

He played mostly two complete seasons before this injury. He’s only played less than 100 games his rookie season and the pandemic season. He was hurt in 2019 but he did make it back for the postseason. You want all you can get out of the guy but he’s not as brittle as some others. I’m thinking of guys like Anthony Rendon and Ellsbury. At least he’s good when he does play. That’s not always the case with guys who come back from injury either.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by packs

He played mostly two complete seasons before this injury. He’s only played less than 100 games his rookie season and the pandemic season. He was hurt in 2019 but he did make it back for the postseason. You want all you can get out of the guy but he’s not as brittle as some others. I’m thinking of guys like Anthony Rendon and Ellsbury. At least he’s good when he does play. That’s not always the case with guys who come back from injury either.

He missed 50 and 60 games in 2018 and 2019 so that's about 1/3 of the season. You're right that his production was there when he played, but that's a significant amount of time to miss. He hasn't been out as much as Stanton and the Yankees have to hope that stays true or it's going to be a long 9 years under his new contract.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Unusual career thus far, with almost half his WAR coming in just those two epic seasons.

[mrreality68]

All The ability but potentially Availability.

Regardless of injury plagued or accidents like this injury

He is an amazing player on both sides of the ball when healthy but people are right to many years that are not full years and this could derail his overall career from how amazing it could be.

Shame the year of his big contract, his year of becoming Team Captain, The year he started with and it is slowly flushing away.

[packs]

I'm just wondering what other choice the Yankees had? I understand the critics when it comes to length of the contract and age, but at the same time how else could things have gone with his contract?

The Yankees couldn't possibly not sign him. The fans would have eaten them alive and the team would also obviously be much worse off.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm just wondering what other choice the Yankees had? I understand the critics when it comes to length of the contract and age, but at the same time how else could things have gone with his contract?

The Yankees couldn't possibly not sign him. The fans would have eaten them alive and the team would also obviously be much worse off.

Agree, sometimes you just have to re-sign your own players, even though you think its not the smartest move, like the Nats did with Strasburg.

[D. Bergin]

Yanks could have got him much cheaper if they were more aggressive re-signing him a year earlier...but how were they to know he'd have an injury free year, hit 62 HR's and win MVP going away.

They had to take this one on the chin.

Don't worry guys. Hal S. will be just fine. He's got enough Wonder Bread stocked up in his pantry to get through the next two winters...at least.

[packs]

I just feel like the criticisms are out of whack. Judge hit 62 homers and his OPS+ was 212. He was twice as good as the average player in the league.

Even if he put up those numbers again once during the lifetime of his contract, who else in the league is capable of doing that at all?

You can't fault the Yankees for signing him or the price they paid to do it. There wasn't really an alternative for the fan base and there are only a few select players in his class when he's on the field.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like the criticisms are out of whack. Judge hit 62 homers and his OPS+ was 212. He was twice as good as the average player in the league.

Even if he put up those numbers again once during the lifetime of his contract, who else in the league is capable of doing that at all?

You can't fault the Yankees for signing him or the price they paid to do it. There wasn't really an alternative for the fan base and there are only a few select players in his class when he's on the field.

Because it seems unlikely he will do it again, is 31 and routinely out of the lineup and he is getting $360,000,000. People can absolutely fault the Yankees for signing a guy who does not project to age well (big men rarely do) to a titanic contract. You can do a lot with $360,000,000. I get that the Yankees chose to do the PR move and pay Judge's price after he broke the hallowed Yankee record, but there is very real and obvious downside look here.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like the criticisms are out of whack. Judge hit 62 homers and his OPS+ was 212. He was twice as good as the average player in the league.

Even if he put up those numbers again once during the lifetime of his contract, who else in the league is capable of doing that at all?

You can't fault the Yankees for signing him or the price they paid to do it. There wasn't really an alternative for the fan base and there are only a few select players in his class when he's on the field.

The Yankees were damned if they did, damned if they didn't, when it came to deciding whether or not to sign Judge.

People throw around the amount of money he got, it's a staggering amount for sure. But the Yankees as a sports franchise are worth something like 7 Billion dollars? They're a global brand, at this point. Money is really no option. I don't think anyone can deny the talent Judge has, and when he's healthy he delivers.

I also agree, these are freak injuries. It's not like he has some reccuring chronic injury, it's not some form of condition. The guy hustled to make an incredible play, crashed into a wall and got hurt. We always talk about wanting to see players give there all, well he did, and this is what happened.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because it seems unlikely he will do it again, is 31 and routinely out of the lineup and he is getting $360,000,000. People can absolutely fault the Yankees for signing a guy who does not project to age well (big men rarely do) to a titanic contract. You can do a lot with $360,000,000. I get that the Yankees chose to do the PR move and pay Judge's price after he broke the hallowed Yankee record, but there is very real and obvious downside look here.

I'm not sure it's that unlikely. He did have a OPS+ of 195 before his toe injury. He doesn't have spinal stenosis or some other degenerative issue. He doesn't have the hip problem A-Rod did. He doesn't have the wrist problem other power hitters have had. He hurt his toe this time. It's not like that's a typical big man injury. Sometimes things just happen.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not sure it's that unlikely. He did have a OPS+ of 195 before his toe injury. He doesn't have spinal stenosis or some other degenerative issue. He doesn't have the hip problem A-Rod did. He doesn't have the wrist problem other power hitters have had. He hurt his toe this time. It's not like that's a typical big man injury. Sometimes things just happen.

Sometimes things just happen. That Judge will break the home run record again is not a thing likely to happen, though, under any rational analysis as everyone should know. The downside of this contract is obvious.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like the criticisms are out of whack. Judge hit 62 homers and his OPS+ was 212. He was twice as good as the average player in the league.

As someone else put it, Aaron hustled with all his might to get that ball in LA, and got it! In more ways than one, unfortunately. I've read Dodger management is going to take care of that short, but deadly, concrete embankment. Freak injury, but he wasn't showboating or lolly-gagging around out there.

Now here come some snarky comments, a la "I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN!"

I am just very proud of the Yankee organization for taking all the time that is necessary for Aaron to recovery properly. Remember too, he carries 282 pounds on those toes of his, a lot more than your average athlete. It WILL take awhile, like it or not. The Yanks gotta take care of their investment, regardless if he's out for the rest of 2023.

Big deal, compared to rushing him, coaxing him, or browbeating him into just being the DH.

Remember what happened to the great Dizzy Dean during and after the 1937 All-Star Game? Sadly, 'nuf said.

When Aaron Judge recovers completely, and is able to don the pinstripes once again, and do what he does so well, that will be a great day for him, and the rest of us.

Until then, keep him in your prayers. ---Brian Powell

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

Sometimes things just happen. That Judge will break the home run record again is not a thing likely to happen, though, under any rational analysis as everyone should know. The downside of this contract is obvious.

I was talking about his ability to produce, not hit 62 or more home runs again. As I said, his OPS+ at time of injury was 195. You don't have to hit 62 home runs every season to be worth a big contract. He's the only one to do that, so why would that be the criteria?

He played 49 games this year and is still currently third in the AL in home runs.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I was talking about his ability to produce, not hit 62 or more home runs again. As I said, his OPS+ at time of injury was 195. You don't have to hit 62 home runs every season to be worth a big contract. He's the only one to do that, so why would that be the criteria?

He played 49 games this year and is still currently third in the AL in home runs.

It's the criteria because it is the one you chose to use with the words you wrote. We'll quote that back again too:

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like the criticisms are out of whack. Judge hit 62 homers and his OPS+ was 212. He was twice as good as the average player in the league.

Even if he put up those numbers again once during the lifetime of his contract, who else in the league is capable of doing that at all?

It still sometimes amazes me that so many posters do not seem to understand a forum thread records what was said. Your directly stated justification for why you cannot understand criticism of the contract is Judge's 62 dingers and 212 OPS+ before signing the contract. Your second paragraph is arguing that even if only does it once more, it's a good deal.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

It's the criteria because it is the one you chose to use with the words you wrote. We'll quote that back again too:



It still sometimes amazes me that so many posters do not seem to understand a forum thread records what was said. Your directly stated justification for why you cannot understand criticism of the contract is Judge's 62 dingers and 212 OPS+ before signing the contract. Your second paragraph is arguing that even if only does it once more, it's a good deal.

Again, I was talking about production. And yeah, if he leads the league in homers, RBI's, on base, slugging, OPS and OPS+ again, the deal's worth it. It doesn't matter if the numbers are exactly the same, it's the production.

I guess I should have clarified but I didn't realize things could get so pedantic.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Again, I was talking about production. I mentioned his OPS+ of 212. That's what I meant by repeat, not 62 home runs. And yeah, if he leads the league in homers, RBI's, on base, slugging, OPS and OPS+ again, the deal's worth it. It doesn't matter if the numbers are exactly the same, it's the production.

I guess I should have clarified but I didn't realize things could get so pedantic.

Then state your argument and reasons correctly. People can only respond to what people actually say, not a version thought up later when the former statements become inconvenient. If we want to use your OPS+ measure and ignore your HR statements (as it is pedantry to look at what is actually written) instead, it is also very unlikely that Judge will be posting such lofty OPS+'s in full seasons. Very unlikely. Maybe it will happen, but expecting the absolute best possible outcomes and ignoring everything else usually is exactly what makes for a very bad contract.

Good for Judge, he got his payday and leveraged the record into one that forced the Yankees to pay up big time for the politics of it. The downsides of the contract from a team perspective should be immediately obvious, whether one thinks it good or bad in the end.

[packs]

What team perspective are you talking about though? A team has to keep its fans happy, right? How do you think Yankee fans would have reacted to the team not signing Judge after the season he had?

I don't see the stretch you do. He was having another monster season this year and he finished 4th in MVP voting in 2021 before winning in 2022.

This isn't a Chris Davis situation where so much is unknown.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

What team perspective are you talking about though? A team has to keep its fans happy, right? How do you think Yankee fans would have reacted to the team not signing Judge after the season he had?

I don't see the stretch you do. He was having another monster season this year and he finished 4th in MVP voting in 2021 before winning in 2022.

This isn't a Chris Davis situation where so much is unknown.

The teams perspective means the perspective of the only team in discussion. I do not know how that could possibly be made any more clear. It is not in the Yankees interest to pay buckets of cash to a guy on the injury list. I cannot fathom what there is to argue there.

In my first post here I said very, very directly and succinctly why the team did it and that it was good PR to resign the guy who broke a big record the team has owned for like a century. I don’t know how I could be any more direct in the English language.

Even the greatest players in all of history do not have years like Judge’s 2022 routinely. It’s cool you think otherwise, but almost nobody else will. He’s a greatly talented player who struggles to stay in the line up. His 2023 is a perfect example of the blatantly obvious downsides to this deal. I like him. I hope he does it. I also look at reality.

[robw1959]

The blame for this injury falls squarely on the Yankees. What other team has a 6" raised concrete curb in front of their outfield wall? Just unbelievable, and I am surprised it hasn't happened before to some other outfielder.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by robw1959

The blame for this injury falls squarely on the Yankees. What other team has a 6" raised concrete curb in front of their outfield wall? Just unbelievable, and I am surprised it hasn't happened before to some other outfielder.

I think you mean the Dodgers since the injury happened at Dodger Stadium.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think you mean the Dodgers since the injury happened at Dodger Stadium.

Yes the blame to me should be on MLB and the Dodgers. THe Dodgers because it was there stadium(and surprised someone did not get injured sooner) and MLB they should have have and standards in place and should be inspecting yearly/quarterly etc those standards or auditing condition reports of stadiums etc. Although in cases like Oakland they obviously are not