Preference of Buying Venues

[Johnny630]

Which do you prefer? The action and excitement of bidding/winning in auction houses(including eBay auctions/not BIN or Best Offer) or paying a strong reasonably fair price directly from a seller privately in person or online direct sale platforms such as BST, FB, Ect.

[3-2-count]

I would strongly prefer to purchase an item at a fair price directly from a seller privately.

Many items in my collection have come via this route.

[rugbymarine]

Great question. I actually enjoy them all. They all take work, whether it's fine-tuning search terms to get ideal results, or scrolling through the plethora of 'monthly auctions'.

eBay: About 50% of my collection came from eBay. It's not what it used to be, but it's still a great way to connect buyers and sellers for thousands of regular issue pre-war and post-war cards, which is mostly what I collect.

Auction houses: About 40% of my collection was acquired through an auction house. For security of transactions, auction houses seem to be the preferred method for items >$500. This may be just an anecdotal observation, but I seem to get the least 'bang for the buck' from auction houses.

Private sale: About 10% of my collection. My favorite way to acquire cards, due to the ability to eliminate the fluff of the transaction costs (Sales tax, buyer's premium). It also has the benefit of building hobby relationships. I've bought and sold and maintained contact and in some cases developed friendships.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

I would strongly prefer to purchase an item at a fair price directly from a seller privately.

Many items in my collection have come via this route.

+1, always best on private sales but they are not easy sometimes. AH's are where the great cards usually come from. A sign of the times.
And thanks again for this one, Tony!, via the BST. When you put it up there I wasn't looking for one but I saw it and said, wow, that's a great card...

[mrreality68]

I buy most from the Auction Houses only because I do not have connections/networks to find what I want from private sales.

But I do prefer private sales
1. I like to connect with people and making no friends, people with same interest etc
2. Prefer the money to go to the individual than to the auction house
3. Many times trades can be involved where they cannot with eBay or auction houses

[raulus]

I buy them wherever I can find them!!

Typically it seems like a lot of lower-end (and some mid-range) pieces are on eBay. So if that’s what I’m looking for, then eBay is often where I’m going to find it. Needless to say, the Rosen Mantle isn’t likely to be listed on eBay, although every once in a while something really nice will come up there.

A lot of high end stuff tends to come up on auction houses. Not that they don’t also have plenty of pieces that are middling too. But most of the really nice stuff that will go for 5 or 6 figures seems to end up at an auction house. Back when I first started collecting, this used to really piss me off, mostly because it seemed like the 20% bidder premium was ignored by buyers. Over time, I’ve realized it’s about my only option if I really want to buy nice stuff.

Every once in a while, someone will have a piece that I really want, but they’re not looking to sell it publicly. Maybe they are only willing to sell it to the right collection or collector. Maybe they don’t really want to advertise that it’s for sale, because maybe it’s not really for sale. Maybe they’re only really willing to let it go for a “make me move” price. Whatever the reason, sometimes it’s how you get connected to an item. While it’s definitely not common for me, some of the most impossible pieces to find have come to me through private sales. So in that way, it’s certainly a good way to go. Obviously the big challenge here is getting plugged in with other collectors. For me, it’s largely been a function of other collectors reaching out through the PSA set registry, or through collectors in our world who seem to know almost everyone, and are always keeping their eyes open to help facilitate an acquisition for me.

I will admit as an amateur economist that I tend to prefer the process of setting a price that comes through an auction. That way I know (barring auction hijinks) that I’m not just bidding against myself. At the same time, if you’re around long enough, especially for impossible-to-find items, you start to develop a good sense of what is a reasonable price for an item, and what is not.

Bottom line for me is to be flexible. And to always decide on what price works for you and what doesn’t. And don’t be afraid to back away from any venue if the deal isn’t right. Just be prepared for the non-buyer’s remorse that comes if you chose not to get something that you really really wanted.

[Kidnapped18]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Which do you prefer? The action and excitement of bidding/winning in auction houses(including eBay auctions/not BIN or Best Offer) or paying a strong reasonably fair price directly from a seller privately in person or online direct sale platforms such as BST, FB, Ect.

My preference is private sales, BST then auction houses.

[Casey2296]

I really enjoy the age old art of the trade or cash/trade. There's something hugely satisfying about two collectors helping each other out with their collections. And since this thread is short of cards, acquired this one from Leon in a fun trade.
-

[Deertick]

Far and away, my preference is for an in-person auction!

1. The excitement of finding something in a general auction.
2. Prices are generally much, much lower.
3. If you have flipper competition, a lot of the time they are looking for 50% ARV.
4. If you are up against a collector, the art of bidding is such a rush. Knowing when to jump in, being able to jump increments, gauge commitment, set yourself up for other lots, etc.
5. It is almost like hunting, knowing when to ask for an item to be moved up to the block or just waiting it out for 6 (!) hrs.

It has been a lot tougher now that many auctions have embraced a hybrid approach, but many old school auctioneers have little patience for internet lag time and seem to favor onsite action at the hammer.

[Hankphenom]

I realize it wasn't one of the choices offered, but to me, there is nothing like walking the aisles of a show, not knowing what you might come across, then wheeling and dealing with the seller to snag something you find. Of course, shows aren't what they used to be, but they just might be poised for a comeback given the decline of eBay and other online venues for lower and mid-level stuff not deemed qualified for the big auctions.

[Lobo Aullando]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Far and away, my preference is for an in-person auction!

I know they're still around in the coin world, but I haven't seen any in the card world in the few years I've been back collecting. Is it mostly estate (i.e., broad variety) auctions you're hitting up?

[parkplace33]

I would love private sales, but am seeing most of the really good stuff going to AHs.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I would love private sales, but am seeing most of the really good stuff going to AHs.

Couldn't agree more. At the same time, just for fun, I went back through my collection to attempt to identify which items I purchased from private sales, and although it's in the minority, there are definitely some pieces that are impossible to find.

Here's a good selection, except that I've omitted most of the Bazooka Complete Boxes and Bazooka Panels that Howard was gracious enough to sell to me a few years ago, because I can't remember which specific ones I got from him.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Lobo Aullando

I know they're still around in the coin world, but I haven't seen any in the card world in the few years I've been back collecting. Is it mostly estate (i.e., broad variety) auctions you're hitting up?

Yes, but not specifically 'Estate Auctions' as they tend to know what they have and advertise as such. Mainly they are local general auctions, which are usually a group of cleanouts. I had a rotation of about 10 within a 60 mile radius. The tough part was if two or more were held on same day. I'd run around and preview then try to decide how to get what I wanted (if anything) and if it was possible to get to them. But most of them were different days, either weekly or monthly. Covid stopped a lot, but starting to pick back up.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by raulus

Couldn't agree more. At the same time, just for fun, I went back through my collection to attempt to identify which items I purchased from private sales, and although it's in the minority, there are definitely some pieces that are impossible to find. Here's a good selection, except that I've omitted most of the Bazooka Complete Boxes and Bazooka Panels that Howard was gracious enough to sell to me a few years ago, because I can't remember which specific ones I got from him.

Amazing collection of oddball rarities!

[Exhibitman]

Doesn't matter.

That said, a good word for trading. When you can pull it off, there is nothing as satisfying as making a trade that leaves both parties happy. One of my favorite aspects of the National (at least before the last two) was an annual trade meeting I had with another boxing collector. We'd sit for hours and dicker over some very complicated trades. I got some of my favorite cards and related items that way. One man's junk is another man's gold.

I am very pleased to see trade events as formal parts of shows now. Kids and newbs need to learn how to communicate and cooperate. I was too tired to attend the Burbank one, but it looked like a lot of fun.

[Luke]

Trading or doing some sort of group purchase with a friend is the best. You get to help someone with their project and improve your collection. Then I like private sales from friends, followed by ebay and buying privately from a random seller, then auctions.

Auctions are lowest for me just because of how long they take. The month of knowing the auction has a card you'd like but not knowing if you will win it is more frustrating to me than exciting. The final night of bidding definitely can be exciting though. And of course the trust you have with AHs and the ability to take a week or so to move money for bigger items is wonderful. I really like AHs and many of my best cards were purchased from one, it just isn't my preferred way to buy.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Which do you prefer? The action and excitement of bidding/winning in auction houses(including eBay auctions/not BIN or Best Offer) or paying a strong reasonably fair price directly from a seller privately in person or online direct sale platforms such as BST, FB, Ect.

Private sale all day long.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by raulus

Couldn't agree more. At the same time, just for fun, I went back through my collection to attempt to identify which items I purchased from private sales, and although it's in the minority, there are definitely some pieces that are impossible to find.

Here's a good selection, except that I've omitted most of the Bazooka Complete Boxes and Bazooka Panels that Howard was gracious enough to sell to me a few years ago, because I can't remember which specific ones I got from him.

Nice group of tough to find Mays.

[G1911]

1. Pals. Trades, buys or mutual gifting with hobby friends is the smoothest and easiest by far. If something goes wrong, it’s because the card really did get lost in the mail. We aren’t going to lie, cheat or steal for a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff. It’s the safest and simplest. My favorites are the collectors I’ve been doing it with long enough that we don’t even work out specific trades, but simply pass along to the other whatever they need, knowing it will roughly work out even over the years and not caring much if it doesn’t. It is quite fun to get a surprise card in the mail I did not know was even coming; and I hope those I send cards to in the same manner get that same joy when a surprise turns up.

2. Private deals with other collectors. It’s usually cheaper, it’s easier, and it’s usually honest. People are unlikely to ruin their trading rep by lying or cheating on a single deal. I’ve never had a single one awry.

3. Buys from dealers I am friendly with and have established a mutual level of trust with. Their incentive to BS about condition is outweighed by the value of the long term buying relationship, plus most generally decent people won’t try to cheat someone they actually know a little when they might take advantage of a stranger. Very low risk.

4. Local card show dealers I don’t know/LCS - I get to at least examine the card myself in hand before buying, at the worst.

5. eBay. You pay your bid, plus the stated shipping you know in advance, plus tax that nobody but the state can control. It’s easy, buyer protection is strong, and I have faith that eBay itself is not shilling to my max bid. The downside is that many sellers are shilling, a downside of the auction format.

6. Online sites of dealers I do not know but have a solid track record of delivering the items as described (like Battersbox, for one example).

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will decline to do business with even for my white whale items, and the other half I try and avoid unless it’s something unique I really want.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

1. Pals. Trades, buys or mutual gifting with hobby friends is the smoothest and easiest by far. If something goes wrong, it’s because the card really did get lost in the mail. We aren’t going to lie, cheat or steal for a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff. It’s the safest and simplest. My favorites are the collectors I’ve been doing it with long enough that we don’t even work out specific trades, but simply pass along to the other whatever they need, knowing it will roughly work out even over the years and not caring much if it doesn’t. It is quite fun to get a surprise card in the mail I did not know was even coming; and I hope those I send cards to in the same manner get that same joy when a surprise turns up.

2. Private deals with other collectors. It’s usually cheaper, it’s easier, and it’s usually honest. People are unlikely to ruin their trading rep by lying or cheating on a single deal. I’ve never had a single one awry.

3. Buys from dealers I am friendly with and have established a mutual level of trust with. Their incentive to BS about condition is outweighed by the value of the long term buying relationship, plus most generally decent people won’t try to cheat someone they actually know a little when they might take advantage of a stranger. Very low risk.

4. Local card show dealers I don’t know/LCS - I get to at least examine the card myself in hand before buying, at the worst.

5. eBay. You pay your bid, plus the stated shipping you know in advance, plus tax that nobody but the state can control. It’s easy, buyer protection is strong, and I have faith that eBay itself is not shilling to my max bid. The downside is that many sellers are shilling, a downside of the auction format.

6. Online sites of dealers I do not know but have a solid track record of delivering the items as described (like Battersbox, for one example).

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will decline to do business with even for my white whale items, and the other half I try and avoid unless it’s something unique I really want.

Which Auction Houses Are You Referring ?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Which Auction Houses Are You Referring ?

They Are Grouped Together As A Single Category.

[Peter_Spaeth]

High percentage ebay, high percentage direct deals, low percentage auction houses. Even the ones I trust, the prices usually go higher than I want to pay, and cross the line from strong to crazy.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

They Are Grouped Together As A Single Category.

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

I would agree on all three names there.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

Mhm. Clearly I posited that every auction house was guilty of every point, even though the words are the exact opposite of that.

Which of the points would you like me to name specific examples of for you?

[RCMcKenzie]

I like live auctions. I like the old-timey, fast-talking, cattle-call style, where they point to you when you bid and yell-out loudly, "haaaaaa...hooooooo!" Also, I'd much rather have in-house shipping than 3rd party.

A long time ago, I liked picking on eBay. I just can't muster up the time or energy for eBay anymore.

[Casey2296]

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will declina.

You posted that they were all the same as a group, they're not.

Your post is pretty clear and I don't disagree with you, but be specific with your accusations, do you think the three people mentioned are involved in fraud or dishonesty? Registering? I literally put Leon's name for a reference and am approved instantly.

To be specific, I will never do business with Ken Goldin because I think he's a Huckster, and that's ok, Ken doesn't need my business and I don't care if he has my Wonka golden ticket cuz it's not as important to me as integrity.

PWCC? It's like walking into a den of thieves, but that's the game with them, play it or not.

All I'm saying is be specific with your accusations because the three folks mentioned have nothing to do with that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will declina.

You posted that they were all the same as a group, they're not.

Your post is pretty clear and I don't disagree with you, but be specific with your accusations, do you think the three people mentioned are involved in fraud or dishonesty? Registering? I literally put Leon's name for a reference and am approved instantly.

To be specific, I will never do business with Ken Goldin because I think he's a Huckster, and that's ok, Ken doesn't need my business and I don't care if he has my Wonka golden ticket cuz it's not as important to me as integrity.

PWCC? It's like walking into a den of thieves, but that's the game with them, play it or not.

All I'm saying is be specific with your accusations because the three folks mentioned have nothing to do with that.

I posted that they are all the same as a group in my ranking, as in the ranking tiers replying to the point. I am not the first to group auction houses as a buying option in my ordered list. Are you upset at those other posters? Are you upset I did not list every trading partner as a separate item? Are you upset that I did not list out every dealer as a separate item? Why would I break out every single auction house as a separate item in the list? Nobody seems to be doing that.

Read what I wrote. Notice the frequent use of words obviously indicating that not everyone is guilty of everything or even anything. "a large number of people", "is rampant", "often done", "most hide it", "usually". It's almost like there is a pattern. A pattern I include very, very specifically because there is a fairly high percentage of people here who get triggered if they read anything that does not fit their opinion. Where did I say EVERYONE is guilty? I very explicitly say the opposite; that these are frequent problems in auction houses but not all. Where did I mention your pals at all, whatsoever?

As for registration requirements, I very explicitly said it is "more off-putting than difficult" and highlighted that it is easy, but yet another step, as wraps up near the end of the paragraph with the point that it has the most cons, takes more work, and costs more money than the other options. I find it a little silly and annoying, you don't, but the claim to fact seems to be agreed. There's not much to say beyond that.

Again, I am more than happy to give examples for any specific point I actually made, but not the ones you invented. My unedited, actual words are there to read.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

I posted that they are all the same as a group in my ranking, as in the ranking tiers replying to the point. I am not the first to group auction houses as a buying option in my ordered list. Are you upset at those other posters? Are you upset I did not list every trading partner as a separate item? Are you upset that I did not list out every dealer as a separate item? Why would I break out every single auction house as a separate item in the list? Nobody seems to be doing that.

Read what I wrote. Notice the frequent use of words obviously indicating that not everyone is guilty of everything or even anything. "a large number of people", "is rampant", "often done", "most hide it", "usually". It's almost like there is a pattern. A pattern I include very, very specifically because there is a fairly high percentage of people here who get triggered if they read anything that does not fit their opinion. Where did I say EVERYONE is guilty? I very explicitly say the opposite; that these are frequent problems in auction houses but not all. Where did I mention your pals at all, whatsoever?

As for registration requirements, I very explicitly said it is "more off-putting than difficult" and highlighted that it is easy, but yet another step, as wraps up near the end of the paragraph with the point that it has the most cons, takes more work, and costs more money than the other options. I find it a little silly and annoying, you don't, but the claim to fact seems to be agreed. There's not much to say beyond that.

Again, I am more than happy to give examples for any specific point I actually made, but not the ones you invented. My unedited, actual words are there to read.

No big deal. Your comment paints auction houses with a pretty broad negative brush and like I said in my previous post I don't disagree with you. Johnny630 asked you to be more specific and you declined which I thought was a bit of a cop out. Doesn't really matter, I just think some members here appreciate both positive and negative feedback when it comes to auction houses so they can be aware of which ones might not have their best interest at heart. I gave 3 examples of auction houses that I've had positive experiences with and two that I haven't, other members might have different opinions about them and that's okay too.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No big deal. Your comment paints auction houses with a pretty broad negative brush and like I said in my previous post I don't disagree with you. Johnny630 asked you to be more specific and you declined which I thought was a bit of a cop out. Doesn't really matter, I just think some members here appreciate both positive and negative feedback when it comes to auction houses so they can be aware of which ones might not have their best interest at heart. I gave 3 examples of auction houses that I've had positive experiences with and two that I haven't, other members might have different opinions about them and that's okay too.

Agree G1911 brought up and made this statement,

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty

I’d like to know a little more specific about who and what actions he is talking about with AH’s. It seems like painting with a broad brush is not fair to me. Please be specific ?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree G1911 brought up and made this statement,

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty

I’d like to know a little more specific about who and what actions he is talking about with AH’s. It seems like painting with a broad brush is not fair to me. Please be specific ?

Thank you for identifying what statement you are inquiring into. That's something I can actually work with. Here's an example off the dome of each:

Hobby Frauds - PWCC; as famous as a fraud ring as they are a top auction house now.

Horrible business practices - How about Heritage openly allowing themselves to shill bid in their rules? My personal opinion is that is a horrible business practice that makes me not want to ever bid with them.

Thefts - Lifson - NYPL.

Staggering dishonesty - How about Ken Goldin and Score Board? Issuing redemptions for items they wouldn't deliver because of the bankruptcy, and then selling those items on TV. Have you ever seen less honest advertising than his pitches with Don West about these GREAT DEALS of junk they were trying to dump on fools? I'd call those embarrassingly extreme pitches staggeringly dishonest.

And for a bonus, doesn't Cohen have a federal fraud conviction on his record?

PWCC, Heritage, REA, Goldin, Memory Lane. What percentage of the auction house market do just these solitary examples constitute? Seems like a very large share, though as they aren't all public we don't know. I doubt any of this is news.

Highest prices, lowest convenience, and many of the biggest are people I do not want to do business with for the obvious reasons. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; none of us are perfect but when I do business, I find it behooves me to do so with people who don't have fraud convictions, thefts, fraud rings, and staggering dishonesty in their histories. Seems strictly reasonable to me, as a buyer, looking out for my interest.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No big deal. Your comment paints auction houses with a pretty broad negative brush and like I said in my previous post I don't disagree with you. Johnny630 asked you to be more specific and you declined which I thought was a bit of a cop out. Doesn't really matter, I just think some members here appreciate both positive and negative feedback when it comes to auction houses so they can be aware of which ones might not have their best interest at heart. I gave 3 examples of auction houses that I've had positive experiences with and two that I haven't, other members might have different opinions about them and that's okay too.

For the third time, I am more than happy to dive into it. You still have not identified which statement you want examples of or disagree with. This is my third request for you to identify what you want me to dive into.

I am not going to address claims I simply did not make, which is what you have asked thus far. I do not see how a person can reasonably do that. I gave you a list highlighting the language that very, very clearly does NOT accuse 100% of guilt in each issue I raised. I have no idea how you are taking it as a directed attack at your 3 favorites, some of which are very minor players (and that is not intended as disrespect; simply market share).

[raulus]

It seems like there’s plenty of history out there with auction houses, and I haven’t really been around for long enough to really experience it, although you always wonder whether there are shenanigans that are just hidden, like shill bidding.

My own experience with auction houses has been positive, if expensive, with one exception, which has been well documented on this board, and doesn’t merit further comment.

I did learn from that experience that there are any number of supporters of auction houses, and seem very happy to defend their reputation and honor. I’m sure they will come around momentarily to comment on some of the above notations.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

I did learn from that experience that there are any number of supporters of auction houses, and seem very happy to defend their reputation and honor. I’m sure they will come around momentarily to comment on some of the above notations.

Well, I'll bet there won't be a discussion about the first paragraph and the joys of gifting cards and swapping with hobby pals

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

Thank you for identifying what statement you are inquiring into. That's something I can actually work with. Here's an example off the dome of each:

Hobby Frauds - PWCC; as famous as a fraud ring as they are a top auction house now.

Horrible business practices - How about Heritage openly allowing themselves to shill bid in their rules? My personal opinion is that is a horrible business practice that makes me not want to ever bid with them.

Thefts - Lifson - NYPL.

Staggering dishonesty - How about Ken Goldin and Score Board? Issuing redemptions for items they wouldn't deliver because of the bankruptcy, and then selling those items on TV. Have you ever seen less honest advertising than his pitches with Don West about these GREAT DEALS of junk they were trying to dump on fools? I'd call those embarrassingly extreme pitches staggeringly dishonest.

And for a bonus, doesn't Cohen have a federal fraud conviction on his record?

PWCC, Heritage, REA, Goldin, Memory Lane. What percentage of the auction house market do just these solitary examples constitute? Seems like a very large share, though as they aren't all public we don't know. I doubt any of this is news.

Highest prices, lowest convenience, and many of the biggest are people I do not want to do business with for the obvious reasons. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; none of us are perfect but when I do business, I find it behooves me to do so with people who don't have fraud convictions, thefts, fraud rings, and staggering dishonesty in their histories. Seems strictly reasonable to me, as a buyer, looking out for my interest.

Thank You! Who is Cohen?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Thank You! Who is Cohen?

Sorry - J.P.; Memory Lane's President.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

It seems like there’s plenty of history out there with auction houses, and I haven’t really been around for long enough to really experience it, although you always wonder whether there are shenanigans that are just hidden, like shill bidding.

My own experience with auction houses has been positive, if expensive, with one exception, which has been well documented on this board, and doesn’t merit further comment.

I did learn from that experience that there are any number of supporters of auction houses, and seem very happy to defend their reputation and honor. I’m sure they will come around momentarily to comment on some of the above notations.

My biggest concern, by far, about some auction houses is accepting consignments from known card doctors.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

Sorry - J.P.; Memory Lane's President.

Ouch Ok. Thank You for this info. A lot of this I did not know.

[refz]

1) BST (all the way)
2) Private Transactions
3) Shows
4) eBay

I don’t use AH’s as I’m fed up with them. I accept and understand the terms 100% but I can’t count how many times I had a particular auction only to be pulverized in extended bidding. Total turnoff for me.

[Johnny630]

The one thing I wish they could fix is the websites crashing on the final day.