Preference of Buying Venues

[G1911]

1. Pals. Trades, buys or mutual gifting with hobby friends is the smoothest and easiest by far. If something goes wrong, it’s because the card really did get lost in the mail. We aren’t going to lie, cheat or steal for a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff. It’s the safest and simplest. My favorites are the collectors I’ve been doing it with long enough that we don’t even work out specific trades, but simply pass along to the other whatever they need, knowing it will roughly work out even over the years and not caring much if it doesn’t. It is quite fun to get a surprise card in the mail I did not know was even coming; and I hope those I send cards to in the same manner get that same joy when a surprise turns up.

2. Private deals with other collectors. It’s usually cheaper, it’s easier, and it’s usually honest. People are unlikely to ruin their trading rep by lying or cheating on a single deal. I’ve never had a single one awry.

3. Buys from dealers I am friendly with and have established a mutual level of trust with. Their incentive to BS about condition is outweighed by the value of the long term buying relationship, plus most generally decent people won’t try to cheat someone they actually know a little when they might take advantage of a stranger. Very low risk.

4. Local card show dealers I don’t know/LCS - I get to at least examine the card myself in hand before buying, at the worst.

5. eBay. You pay your bid, plus the stated shipping you know in advance, plus tax that nobody but the state can control. It’s easy, buyer protection is strong, and I have faith that eBay itself is not shilling to my max bid. The downside is that many sellers are shilling, a downside of the auction format.

6. Online sites of dealers I do not know but have a solid track record of delivering the items as described (like Battersbox, for one example).

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will decline to do business with even for my white whale items, and the other half I try and avoid unless it’s something unique I really want.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

1. Pals. Trades, buys or mutual gifting with hobby friends is the smoothest and easiest by far. If something goes wrong, it’s because the card really did get lost in the mail. We aren’t going to lie, cheat or steal for a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff. It’s the safest and simplest. My favorites are the collectors I’ve been doing it with long enough that we don’t even work out specific trades, but simply pass along to the other whatever they need, knowing it will roughly work out even over the years and not caring much if it doesn’t. It is quite fun to get a surprise card in the mail I did not know was even coming; and I hope those I send cards to in the same manner get that same joy when a surprise turns up.

2. Private deals with other collectors. It’s usually cheaper, it’s easier, and it’s usually honest. People are unlikely to ruin their trading rep by lying or cheating on a single deal. I’ve never had a single one awry.

3. Buys from dealers I am friendly with and have established a mutual level of trust with. Their incentive to BS about condition is outweighed by the value of the long term buying relationship, plus most generally decent people won’t try to cheat someone they actually know a little when they might take advantage of a stranger. Very low risk.

4. Local card show dealers I don’t know/LCS - I get to at least examine the card myself in hand before buying, at the worst.

5. eBay. You pay your bid, plus the stated shipping you know in advance, plus tax that nobody but the state can control. It’s easy, buyer protection is strong, and I have faith that eBay itself is not shilling to my max bid. The downside is that many sellers are shilling, a downside of the auction format.

6. Online sites of dealers I do not know but have a solid track record of delivering the items as described (like Battersbox, for one example).

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will decline to do business with even for my white whale items, and the other half I try and avoid unless it’s something unique I really want.

Which Auction Houses Are You Referring ?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Which Auction Houses Are You Referring ?

They Are Grouped Together As A Single Category.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

They Are Grouped Together As A Single Category.

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

I would agree on all three names there.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's a cop out. I would posit that Al, Brian, and Scott have the utmost of integrity in this business. If you're going to throw dirt throw it at the right AH so other members can choose who to do business with.

Mhm. Clearly I posited that every auction house was guilty of every point, even though the words are the exact opposite of that.

Which of the points would you like me to name specific examples of for you?

[RCMcKenzie]

I like live auctions. I like the old-timey, fast-talking, cattle-call style, where they point to you when you bid and yell-out loudly, "haaaaaa...hooooooo!" Also, I'd much rather have in-house shipping than 3rd party.

A long time ago, I liked picking on eBay. I just can't muster up the time or energy for eBay anymore.

[Casey2296]

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will declina.

You posted that they were all the same as a group, they're not.

Your post is pretty clear and I don't disagree with you, but be specific with your accusations, do you think the three people mentioned are involved in fraud or dishonesty? Registering? I literally put Leon's name for a reference and am approved instantly.

To be specific, I will never do business with Ken Goldin because I think he's a Huckster, and that's ok, Ken doesn't need my business and I don't care if he has my Wonka golden ticket cuz it's not as important to me as integrity.

PWCC? It's like walking into a den of thieves, but that's the game with them, play it or not.

All I'm saying is be specific with your accusations because the three folks mentioned have nothing to do with that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Last - auction houses. A large number of people running respected auctions are the same people who have been involved in hobby frauds, horrible business practices, thefts, and staggering dishonesty. Honesty is rare, full disclosure rare, hyperbole everywhere. Fees are typically hidden (few state the shipping on an item at all), shilling is rampant and often done by the auction house and their cronies themselves, and I have 0 trust they are not bidding up to my max. They require references to even register which is offputting more than difficult (eBay, car dealerships, my bank, nobody I have ever done business with for amounts far more than I would be bidding in a card auction requires me to do this). It is likewise easy to calculate the buyers premium, but another annoying business practice that most hide it to try and make you forget to do the calculation (bid + premium + tax + the unknown shipping fee they don’t state). The format runs late into the night usually. It has the most cons, and items sell at the highest prices. It’s the clear loser for a buyer in my shoes. I usually do not register, about half of them I will declina.

You posted that they were all the same as a group, they're not.

Your post is pretty clear and I don't disagree with you, but be specific with your accusations, do you think the three people mentioned are involved in fraud or dishonesty? Registering? I literally put Leon's name for a reference and am approved instantly.

To be specific, I will never do business with Ken Goldin because I think he's a Huckster, and that's ok, Ken doesn't need my business and I don't care if he has my Wonka golden ticket cuz it's not as important to me as integrity.

PWCC? It's like walking into a den of thieves, but that's the game with them, play it or not.

All I'm saying is be specific with your accusations because the three folks mentioned have nothing to do with that.

I posted that they are all the same as a group in my ranking, as in the ranking tiers replying to the point. I am not the first to group auction houses as a buying option in my ordered list. Are you upset at those other posters? Are you upset I did not list every trading partner as a separate item? Are you upset that I did not list out every dealer as a separate item? Why would I break out every single auction house as a separate item in the list? Nobody seems to be doing that.

Read what I wrote. Notice the frequent use of words obviously indicating that not everyone is guilty of everything or even anything. "a large number of people", "is rampant", "often done", "most hide it", "usually". It's almost like there is a pattern. A pattern I include very, very specifically because there is a fairly high percentage of people here who get triggered if they read anything that does not fit their opinion. Where did I say EVERYONE is guilty? I very explicitly say the opposite; that these are frequent problems in auction houses but not all. Where did I mention your pals at all, whatsoever?

As for registration requirements, I very explicitly said it is "more off-putting than difficult" and highlighted that it is easy, but yet another step, as wraps up near the end of the paragraph with the point that it has the most cons, takes more work, and costs more money than the other options. I find it a little silly and annoying, you don't, but the claim to fact seems to be agreed. There's not much to say beyond that.

Again, I am more than happy to give examples for any specific point I actually made, but not the ones you invented. My unedited, actual words are there to read.

[Peter_Spaeth]

High percentage ebay, high percentage direct deals, low percentage auction houses. Even the ones I trust, the prices usually go higher than I want to pay, and cross the line from strong to crazy.