Industry participants' response to scandal so far -- report card

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm not convinced he's a lawyer. No one could be this clueless, even the shittiest slip and fall lawyer.

The average value of a trimmed card in this mess is probably $2000. Let's say it's $5000. Jake, do you think people are going to run to sue over that amount of money? Or will they try like hell to do anything they can to avoid paying a lawyer more money than the value of the card they're suing over? Even the guy with the trimmed PSA 10 Musial didn't sue immediately. He's clearly trying to get his money back without the need for costly, lengthy litigation.

Everyone will try to get their money back....people are arguing right here on this forum about whether certain cards are trimmed or not yet it appears everyone with a claim will get paid back exactly how they want. I would think there will be disagreements with some claims whether its whether the card should of been deemed trimmed or what the worth of the card is and who should pay it etc.

If you have 10 cards that are 5k each it adds up. I thought we are talking about 100s of cards.. BP oil after the spill said they will pay everyone what they owe yet there were still lawsuits.

I just saying that thus far everyone seems happy. I will wait 2 months from now to see if any lawsuits. I hope you at least agree that gives enough time for PSA to review the cards that are submitted. as Peter said 'what choice do they (buyers) have'

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Everyone will try to get their money back....people are arguing right here on this forum about whether certain cards are trimmed or not yet it appears everyone with a claim will get paid back exactly how they want. I would think there will be disagreements with some claims whether its whether the card should of been deemed trimmed or what the worth of the card is and who should pay it etc.

If you have 10 cards that are 5k each it adds up. I thought we are talking about 100s of cards.. BP oil after the spill said they will pay everyone what they owe yet there were still lawsuits.

I just saying that thus far everyone seems happy. I will wait 2 months from now to see if any lawsuits. I hope you at least agree that gives enough time for PSA to review the cards that are submitted. as Peter said 'what choice do they (buyers) have'

Jake you seem pretty happy, have you filed a lawsuit yet? Don't you have some expensive high grade PSA cards or did you sell all your cards?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Jake you seem pretty happy, have you filed a lawsuit yet? Don't you have some expensive high grade PSA cards or did you sell all your cards?

I dont have any altered cards, if i did, you know what i would be doing....

[darwinbulldog]

.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont have any altered cards....

Best quote of the day. Thanks Jake.

How can you be so sure by the way? Just askin'.

[BLongley]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3405

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BLongley

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3405

Looks like they hit SGC hard at the national last year with some big cards.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Best quote of the day. Thanks Jake.

How can you be so sure by the way? Just askin'.

Take a wild guess

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Everyone will try to get their money back....people are arguing right here on this forum about whether certain cards are trimmed or not yet it appears everyone with a claim will get paid back exactly how they want. I would think there will be disagreements with some claims whether its whether the card should of been deemed trimmed or what the worth of the card is and who should pay it etc.

If you have 10 cards that are 5k each it adds up. I thought we are talking about 100s of cards.. BP oil after the spill said they will pay everyone what they owe yet there were still lawsuits.

I just saying that thus far everyone seems happy. I will wait 2 months from now to see if any lawsuits. I hope you at least agree that gives enough time for PSA to review the cards that are submitted. as Peter said 'what choice do they (buyers) have'

Jake, do you think ALL of the PWCC buyers of Gary Moser related cards have been notified that they may own an altered card? If not, do you think PWCC should notify them or should the buyers just have to figure it all out on their own? Do you think PWCC should release to the public a list of all cards connected to Moser?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile

Jake, do you think ALL of the PWCC buyers of Gary Moser related cards have been notified that they may own an altered card? If not, do you think PWCC should notify them or should the buyers just have to figure it all out on their own? Do you think PWCC should release to the public a list of all cards connected to Moser?

It doesnt matter about what they should do for everyone. I still wondering when just 1 'wronged' purchaser files a lawsuit and a lots of issues will be addressed in discovery.

However it appears thus far everyone is willing to wait months to have their cards reviewed that they bought for 10k but were sold months before for 3k as much lower graded card (and have before and after pictures of an alteration/trimming because

a) what choice do they have
b) they are already been reimbursed and everyone agrees what a fair price
c) not worth their time (out of state court) and costs involved/legal fees

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Best quote of the day. Thanks Jake.

How can you be so sure by the way? Just askin'.

I dont think my 1987 topps raw in fair grade have been altered but you are free to go through the 4000 cards to prove me wrong...

[vintagetoppsguy]

I thought I read somewhere that some of the BO guys were planning to go to the National and hang out near PWCCs table to hand out flyers to get the word to more collectors. Is that right? If so, do they planning on hanging out near PSA's table too? Would they be escorted out by security?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I thought I read somewhere that some of the BO guys were planning to go to the National and hang out near PWCCs table to hand out flyers to get the word to more collectors. Is that right? If so, do they planning on hanging out near PSA's table too? Would they be escorted out by security?

I went to the National in 2013 in Chicago and I would have to assume this type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated and they would be removed immediately.

If they plan something like this they should stand out front of the Rosemont Center and hand out fliers as people cross the street.

Obviously all parties are reading the various boards and so they will know issues like this might be coming and will prep security in advance and potentially have their own funded security.

Bad idea to try this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I went to the National in 2013 in Chicago and I would have to assume this type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated and they would be removed immediately.

If they plan something like this they should stand out front of the Rosemont Center and hand out fliers as people cross the street.

Obviously all parties are reading the various boards and so they will know issues like this might be coming and will prep security in advance and potentially have their own funded security.

Bad idea to try this.

Maybe they can hire some wrestling guys.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they can hire some wrestling guys.

Peter I would expect that some parties that have been named will show up with their own private security.

A month or so back I was at the gym and saw a dude doing curls with the largest arms I have ever seen in person. I ended up close to him doing some sets and said OMG I have never seen arms that big and we shook hands and I got his Instagram name so I could follow his bodybuilding progress. It turns out he does a lot of private security I see from looking at his pics. He is the type of dude that will be hired is my bet. No one is going to run their mouth to this guy. No one.

Not only is safety obviously a concern but so would retaliation. The last thing anyone needs is someone getting in their face and a fight ensuing and then a lawsuit or jail.

If I had to bet I think a lot of the people that are saying they have plans to cause a scene or confront certain individuals will chicken out.

One thing for sure it will be an interesting show.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Maybe it is a double secret investigation, has to be a secret if their lawyer doesn't know about it.

You remember SGC graders were involved in grading forged signatures, which would fall under the preview of the FBI. I believe they're still working that case. The SEC would only look at this company if it were publicly traded. It appears to be an LLC.

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just for kicks. My opinion, let's see what others think.



PSA -- only thing I have seen is the Sloan letter, which I would grade an F.

Beckett -- is there a grade lower than F?

PWCC -- last thing I have seen is the piece about slandering cards. If they're

making serious restitution behind the scenes then good, but as to their public response, D. (At least they indicated an intent to cut off card doctors, although the jury is out.)

LOTG -- A+. Thanks to Al for taking a stand.

Scott R -- A+ for speaking out and condemning the fraud.

Other AH's and dealers (and sorry if I have missed any who have spoken out) -- radio silence. Very encouraging that you're all stepping up to the plate and offering your perspective and guidance to the collectors on whom you depend. F.

SGC -- N/A as they haven't really been tagged, yet.

Gary -- told NYT he didn't alter cards, only bumped them. F.

+1

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by topcat61

You remember SGC graders were involved in grading forged signatures, which would fall under the preview of the FBI. I believe they're still working that case. The SEC would only look at this company if it were publicly traded. It appears to be an LLC.

The investigation is of the forger, not SGC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The investigation is of the forger, not SGC.

No lawsuits yet. No problems. Cases were brought within days of the BP oil spill.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No lawsuits yet. No problems. Cases were brought within days of the BP oil spill.

An SGC slab contained an altered card, ergo the FBI is about to arrest everyone at SGC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

An SGC slab contained an altered card, ergo the FBI is about to arrest everyone at SGC.

BLEEP, no wonder my current submission is taking so long.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Peter I would expect that some parties that have been named will show up with their own private security.

A month or so back I was at the gym and saw a dude doing curls with the largest arms I have ever seen in person. I ended up close to him doing some sets and said OMG I have never seen arms that big and we shook hands and I got his Instagram name so I could follow his bodybuilding progress. It turns out he does a lot of private security I see from looking at his pics. He is the type of dude that will be hired is my bet. No one is going to run their mouth to this guy. No one.

Not only is safety obviously a concern but so would retaliation. The last thing anyone needs is someone getting in their face and a fight ensuing and then a lawsuit or jail.

If I had to bet I think a lot of the people that are saying they have plans to cause a scene or confront certain individuals will chicken out.

One thing for sure it will be an interesting show.

Dave knowing how this hobby works half those people will be lining up to consign.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont think my 1987 topps raw in fair grade have been altered but you are free to go through the 4000 cards to prove me wrong...

I wouldn't spend any time looking at the 1987 Topps raw. But all those pretty 1952 Topps and 1954 Topps PSA cards likely have an altered card or two mixed in. So again, how do you know they aren't?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

An SGC slab contained an altered card, ergo the FBI is about to arrest everyone at SGC.

That will teach them to miss bleach. Criminal negligence!!

[Johnny630]

Have we come up with any Gangster Nick Names for these notorious Card Doctors Yet ? Would love to hear some funny ones to lighten the mood on this awful subject.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Check out Sports Card Radio.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Have we come up with any Gangster Nick Names for these notorious Card Doctors Yet ? Would love to hear some funny ones to lighten the mood on this awful subject.

What Peter said. I think "Dollar Tree" is my favorite so far.

[Johnny630]

Which one is dollar tree ?
Someone told me there is some guy called Magic Touch.
Is sport card radio a website ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.sportscardradio.com/

Thanks Peter

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I wouldn't spend any time looking at the 1987 Topps raw. But all those pretty 1952 Topps and 1954 Topps PSA cards likely have an altered card or two mixed in. So again, how do you know they aren't?

He knows because there have been no lawsuits about the cards. Harm prevented.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I wouldn't spend any time looking at the 1987 Topps raw. But all those pretty 1952 Topps and 1954 Topps PSA cards likely have an altered card or two mixed in. So again, how do you know they aren't?

I dont have those cards anymore that were in the PSA registry. So you wouldnt spend any time looking at the 1987 topps raw but yet find it hard to believe I know they were not altered?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

He knows because there have been no lawsuits about the cards. Harm prevented.

Nah but you you believe no one would file suit on a 100k fraud because too much time and effort involved and in America nobody sues for anything because of all the time and fees. Or everyone always agrees to resolve things before a lawsuit and everyone always agrees to the numbers about how much a card is worth

The value of a card is never argued. Everyone is being paid back to their satisfaction, harm prevented.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Nah but you you believe no one would file suit on a 100k fraud because too much time and effort involved and in America nobody sues for anything because of all the time and fees. Or everyone always agrees to resolve things before a lawsuit and everyone always agrees to the numbers about how much a card is worth

The value of a card is never argued. Everyone is being paid back to their satisfaction, harm prevented.

Agree.

Number 1 for PSA is be quiet.....Sure they're gonna say all the right thing during this time... Crisis Management Mode for Newport Beach.
They will weather the storm....people only care about money...... as long as people keep buying in that there product will bring their cards the most money they will continue to thrive.
The Lines at this Years National Will Prove My Theory
It's a Sad State Of Affairs

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree.

Number 1 for PSA is be quiet.....Sure they're gonna say all the right thing during this time... Crisis Management Mode for Newport Beach.
They will weather the storm....people only care about money...... as long as people keep buying in that there product will bring their cards the most money they will continue to thrive.
The Lines at this Years National Will Prove My Theory
It's a Sad State Of Affairs

Deny Minimize Contain Deflect Reassure

Repeat the same empty slogans. Maybe they even believe them?

And -- as the song from Evita goes -- the money kept rolling in.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Deny Minimize Contain Deflect Reassure

Repeat the same empty slogans. Maybe they even believe them?

And -- as the song from Evita goes -- the money kept rolling in.

And Evita had a sad early ending to her life. Dead by age 33.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont have those cards anymore that were in the PSA registry. So you wouldnt spend any time looking at the 1987 topps raw but yet find it hard to believe I know they were not altered?

So all you have now is a bunch of 1987 Topps raw cards in your collection? No more PSA cards anymore? How do you manage all the excitement there?

[warrior1978]

I went through 142 pages on the blowout cards forum seeing if I formerly owned any of the altered cards and to save scans of cards I may have been interested in the future had this scandal not been opposed.

I was specifically interested in Cobb cards. For statistically purposes, I found 13 altered prewar Ty Cobb cards in those 142 pages. They were T206s, T205s, D304 and T227s. 11 had been goofed by PSA and 2 goofed by SGC.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

So all you have now is a bunch of 1987 Topps raw cards in your collection? No more PSA cards anymore? How do you manage all the excitement there?

I have some PSA cards not on the registry. You want to go through my 1974 Topps PSA 3 commons? I will say they are unaltered as well. I always on the lookout for old high dollar cards and sometimes I have a bunch sometimes I dont. Right now I know I dont have any altered cards. However you are free to look through my raw 1987 topps and low grade 1974 topps and the like..

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have some PSA cards not on the registry. You want to go through my 1974 Topps PSA 3 commons? I will say they are unaltered as well. I always on the lookout for old high dollar cards and sometimes I have a bunch sometimes I dont. Right now I know I dont have any altered cards. However you are free to look through my raw 1987 topps and low grade 1974 topps and the like..

You make me smile Jake. Thank you.

[Leon]

How about if a board lawyer is representing any of the involved fraudulent parties? You don't need a lawsuit to take a retainer do you? A retainer would be considered work, right? I am not saying there are any representing anyone but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

talk is cheap, when there are actual lawsuits, there will be something to really discuss.... everyone can say all the witty things they want back and forth but its just talk until theres an actual lawsuit.

[Kenny Cole]

I can assure you that I, for one, am not. I sincerely hope that ALL the fraudsters are charged criminally, and I also hope they get their asses sued off civilly. PSA also needs to back up its warranty. I hope it gets its ass sued off too if it doesn't.

To Jake, despite your claims, sometimes it takes a while. I agree with Peter on that. You are allegedly a lawyer. I mean, seriously? Give me a break.

[Leon]

Something tells me each lawyer in this thread can't say the same thing.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I can assure you that I, for one, am not. I sincerely hope that ALL the fraudsters are charged criminally, and I also hope they get their asses sued off civilly. PSA also needs to back up its warranty. I hope it gets its ass sued off too if it doesn't.

To Jake, despite your claims, sometimes it takes a while. I agree with Peter on that. You are allegedly a lawyer. I mean, seriously? Give me a break.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

How about if a board lawyer is representing any of the involved fraudulent parties? You don't need a lawsuit to take a retainer do you? A retainer would be considered work, right? I am not saying there are any representing anyone but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Lawsuits are a whole different animal then some lawyer sending a letter.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I can assure you that I, for one, am not. I sincerely hope that ALL the fraudsters are charged criminally, and I also hope they get their asses sued off civilly. PSA also needs to back up its warranty. I hope it gets its ass sued off too if it doesn't.

To Jake, despite your claims, sometimes it takes a while. I agree with Peter on that. You are allegedly a lawyer. I mean, seriously? Give me a break.

Enough time has passed that if this was such a huge deal and there were victims everywhere a lawsuit would of been filed. Maybe down the line there will be some but apparently this issue isnt so bad .

Not all lawsuits take forever. Plenty are filed and settled very fast and quickly which avoids fees and costs. Lets not kid ourselves that most lawsuits go to trial

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Lawsuits are a whole different animal then some lawyer sending a letter.

How do you not understand what Leon is saying???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jake is going to post the same thought as many times and in as many threads as he can. It doesn't matter what he's responding to.

NO LAWSUITS YET.
MUST NOT BE A BIG DEAL.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

Something tells me each lawyer in this thread can't say the same thing.

+1. Unfortunate, if true.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jake is going to post the same thought as many times and in as many threads as he can. It doesn't matter what he's responding to.

NO LAWSUITS YET.
MUST NOT BE A BIG DEAL.

Add that to the "just let it go" and the "as long as the cards value isn't affected there's no problem" people, it makes me wonder if the Doctor/PSA supporters are involved or just don't care about anything but money.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by steve B

Add that to the "just let it go" and the "as long as the cards value isn't affected there's no problem" people, it makes me wonder if the Doctor/PSA supporters are involved or just don't care about anything but money.

They only care about money...it’s sad....it’s been a Industry for years.....
Hobby what’s that anymore .....Oy vey