Dealers' Pricing at the National

[Yoda]

It's no secret that 50's and 60's vintage HOF card prices have slipped over the past year or so, even some big stars like Koufax and Aaron. It makes me wonder if dealers' pricing at the National will be realistic, or in many cases still inflated. Dean's Cards springs to mind. If nothing else it should give serious buyers more purchasing power to strike deals with case owners.

[raulus]

We can always dream!

Retail always seems to mean the price is a bit more than you might pay at auction. The trade-off is that you don’t have to deal with the hassle of an auction, and the possibility that it might go even higher. For the seller, they get to skip the uncertainty of the process and lock in a price that’s good enough while potentially giving up some upside if it goes into a complete bidding war at auction.

My guess is that your best bet to get a deal on major stars is going to be on lower graded stuff. Once you get into the higher grades, especially for the earlier issues for the major postwar stars, it’s hard to imagine that a dealer will be willing to come down by very much. Maybe a little, but getting a serious deal seems unlikely.

[Snapolit1]

Same as every big show. Most prices will be stupid high. Lots of things will have no price. Lots of people will explain what they "are into something" like that matters.

I'm not unsympathetic. Costs money to travel round and thank god people do it. But prices are laregely crazy on really desirable stuff. If the card is worth $3500 you can bet it will be marked at $10,000 or higher.

Look at eBay. Almost none of the prices for vintage cards or memorabilia have moved off stupid Covid highs. Expect more of the same.

[Rich Klein]

One aspect to point out, as I tend to do, is that unless you live without easy driving distance of the NSCC and don't have to pony up for Hotel Rooms and usually more expensive food, you have a minimum of 3K out of your pocket before you even sell a card.

That number is a hard number to match and certainly makes it harder to make your expenses than at a local card show which costs you a few hours and $50 for a table

Of course there are deals at the NSCC but you just have to dig a bit

Rich

[Johnny630]

Prices on the good stuff are going to be as high as ever. You will hear I don’t need to sell, it will go up again even more in the long run. If I don’t get my number I’ll be fine...dealers have the upper hand on the good stuff. They will hold or give to REA , Goldin, Heritage, and get insane numbers as always, the auction houses keep things in motion. Ok sure th Mediocre stuff and less there will be deals to be had. Just don’t get high hopes thinking you will get the real good stuff reasonable that won’t happen.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

One aspect to point out, as I tend to do, is that unless you live without easy driving distance of the NSCC and don't have to pony up for Hotel Rooms and usually more expensive food, you have a minimum of 3K out of your pocket before you even sell a card.

I’ve never understood this argument. As an attendee from out of state, except for table fees, I’ve spent the same before even buying a card 😀

[Rrrlyons]

Originally Posted by conor912

I’ve never understood this argument. As an attendee from out of state, except for table fees, I’ve spent the same before even buying a card 😀

Exactly with that logic that means everything we buy has to be worth $3,000 more than we paid for it. Sellers spend the money for the right to have more eyes on your wares and the buyers are hoping they see things they can’t buy at their local shows.
With that seller logic let me know when you are set up at your local show your prices should be a lot cheaper.😀
Rick

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by conor912

I’ve never understood this argument. As an attendee from out of state, except for table fees, I’ve spent the same before even buying a card 😀

And this is why I'll probably never go to the National. I can find almost anything I want for about $3000 less if I buy it online. Not that I wouldn't have fun in the presence of all the cool material, but it's not $3000 worth of fun.

[5-Tool Player]

[QUOTE=Rich Klein;2346617]One aspect to point out, as I tend to do, is that unless you live without easy driving distance of the NSCC and don't have to pony up for Hotel Rooms and usually more expensive food, you have a minimum of 3K out of your pocket before you even sell a card.

That number is a hard number to match and certainly makes it harder to make your expenses than at a local card show which costs you a few hours and $50 for a table

Of course there are deals at the NSCC but you just have to dig a bit

Rich[/QUOTE

Rich, GREAT point......before you make "deals" you have to recoup your expenses

[capt14k]

Higher grades 1950s (7 and above) don't seem to have come down much if any at all. So I would suspect at a show, like most shows including militaria and collectible firearms shows, prices will be through the roof. The best deals are traded between dealers during setup. There will always be a couple hidden gems, but they take searching and a keen eye to find. I have always found the best deals from the guy walking around trying to sell to dealers who have all lowballed him. Go a little higher than the best he was offered and you will have made a great deal.

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[Snapolit1]

Last years National I bought a few oddball items and was thrilled to get them. Didn’t fight dealers over price. Was happy to support someone filling a table. For a real high end item couldn’t see buying it at a show. Seems very unlikely.

[Casey2296]

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I've never been but if you're hunting the rare stuff it's a good chance you might find it there, I've had board members kind enough to find some significant cards for me at the National. At that point it's a different level, like a guy with a trench coat saying "Pssst.. need any D304's?", "Texas Tommy's?, I have some back at the hotel, follow me.." "Cash only and you don't know my name".
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[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

My experience at the last 5 Nationals I attended: Overpriced, overpriced. No deals to be found. Auction houses had the best material, but it was all stuff we've seen auctioned off in the past, sometimes many times over. A complete waste of time and expenses. Unless I know there's a deal in place whereupon a large stack of $100 bills will be coming my way, I'll never attend another National (and even so, I'd be in and out of the show as quickly as possible).

[parkplace33]

If anyone thinks they are getting a deal at the National, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you

Seriously, I believe most dealers don’t need to sell these days. They can sit and hold or sell on another platform. Totally different than the old days.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Seriously, I believe most dealers don’t need to sell these days. They can sit and hold or sell on another platform. Totally different than the old days.

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

[kcohen]

Prices being asked post-Covid on this forum are at times, for me at least, evocative of National asking prices. Nothing wrong with that as maybe I just haven't gotten over the sticker shock.

[theshowandme]

I’m going to start telling my clients what my expenses are. Curious to how they will react


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[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I’m going to start telling my clients what my expenses are. Curious to how they will react
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I set up at a local show this weekend where the table fee was $200/table. I overhear a discussion at the table next to me. He actually had 3 tables and had traveled from Utah to Indianapolis. Customer (a teenager, there with his mom) was trying to knock the price of a ~$25 item down a couple of bucks. Dealer politely informs teenager about travel costs, hotel and table fees. Mom looks at teenager and tells him to give him the extra couple of bucks! Lesson learned!

My take: Many older customers especially those just getting into or back into the hobby need their mom or the ghost of their mom to snap them back to reality.

[Casey2296]

As long as we're talking about it.

I'll pay a fair finders fee for any Texas Tommys, Western Playgrounds, Zeenuts w/coupon, E94 Crawford and Cobb, T217 Mono without creases, T215 Red Cross, Red Crofts, Blue Crofts, Bender white cap T216 Kotton "Not in Trust", E105 Mello Mint, D303 General Baking, and blank back.

If I could get just one from that list I promise I won't complain about "dealer prices".

[jethrod3]

The cards I will be looking for at the National are not rare. Somewhat desirable, but not rare, especially in the condition that I'm searching for. I'm talking several of the star cards from the 1955 Topps baseball set, in VG-EX condition. Cards like Williams and Banks. If I can find dealers willing to sell me cards a tad bit lower than the usual auction price, I will be happy. Why? Because I will likely be able to choose from probably 10-20 of these cards in the condition/price range I am looking for. Also, the dealer avoids paying a consignment fee, and I avoid paying a buyer's premium if it was to be sold/bought at auction. In most cases I'd predict that the dealer would still make over 25% of what he/she paid for the card, and probably pockets $50-$100 per card. I get a good deal, and I also feel good that I'm helping to do my part to offset expenses, having just been on the other side of the table. With fair pricing, and the recognition of fair pricing, everyone wins.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

The cards I will be looking for at the National are not rare. Somewhat desirable, but not rare, especially in the condition that I'm searching for. I'm talking several of the star cards from the 1955 Topps baseball set, in VG-EX condition. Cards like Williams and Banks. If I can find dealers willing to sell me cards a tad bit lower than the usual auction price, I will be happy. Why? Because I will likely be able to choose from probably 10-20 of these cards in the condition/price range I am looking for. Also, the dealer avoids paying a consignment fee, and I avoid paying a buyer's premium if it was to be sold/bought at auction. In most cases I'd predict that the dealer would still make over 25% of what he/she paid for the card, and probably pockets $50-$100 per card. I get a good deal, and I also feel good that I'm helping to do my part to offset expenses, having just been on the other side of the table. With fair pricing, and the recognition of fair pricing, everyone wins.

BTW -- this *IS* the circumstances of which walking around the room and taking notes on pricing makes sense. As he notes. these are not scarce cards at an NSCC and patience pays off for buying the cards he is looking for.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

The cards I will be looking for at the National are not rare. Somewhat desirable, but not rare, especially in the condition that I'm searching for. I'm talking several of the star cards from the 1955 Topps baseball set, in VG-EX condition. Cards like Williams and Banks. If I can find dealers willing to sell me cards a tad bit lower than the usual auction price, I will be happy. Why? Because I will likely be able to choose from probably 10-20 of these cards in the condition/price range I am looking for. Also, the dealer avoids paying a consignment fee, and I avoid paying a buyer's premium if it was to be sold/bought at auction. In most cases I'd predict that the dealer would still make over 25% of what he/she paid for the card, and probably pockets $50-$100 per card. I get a good deal, and I also feel good that I'm helping to do my part to offset expenses, having just been on the other side of the table. With fair pricing, and the recognition of fair pricing, everyone wins.

This'll be me too. I'm going to be on the lookout for some cool memorabilia and maybe a few scarce cards. But mostly I'll be trying to find good value on on post-war cards to complete my sets.

Unlike many on here I'm going to be trying to get my fill of raw 50s,60s and 70s commons in high grades and a handful of stars. But my circumstances are different from most. Being based in the UK, I can find the star cards in auctions and on Ebay. Getting commons is tougher.

Besides meeting fellow collectors, I'm looking forward to spending hours pulling commons from trays and bargain bins.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

It's no secret that 50's and 60's vintage HOF card prices have slipped over the past year or so, even some big stars like Koufax and Aaron. It makes me wonder if dealers' pricing at the National will be realistic, or in many cases still inflated. Dean's Cards springs to mind. If nothing else it should give serious buyers more purchasing power to strike deals with case owners.

50s and 60s cards have slipped? Not from my experience. I buy and sell a ton of 50s cards and I'm still having to pay new all-time highs for what I want every month. And when I sell, it's often another new all-time high.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Snowman

50s and 60s cards have slipped? Not from my experience. I buy and sell a ton of 50s cards and I'm still having to pay new all-time highs for what I want every month. And when I sell, it's often another new all-time high.

Travis - any chance that your experience is somewhat slanted due to your extreme focus on centering? As you've noted before, for perfectly centered cards, there tends to be a serious premium. Not sure if all of your purchases and sales are perfectly centered, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're going for a premium due to the strong centering.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Yoda

It's no secret that 50's and 60's vintage HOF card prices have slipped over the past year or so, even some big stars like Koufax and Aaron. It makes me wonder if dealers' pricing at the National will be realistic, or in many cases still inflated. Dean's Cards springs to mind. If nothing else it should give serious buyers more purchasing power to strike deals with case owners.

I think most pricing will be unrealistic as usual. That said, there are always bargains to be found. And there might be items you don't see elsewhere.
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