Dealers' Pricing at the National

[parkplace33]

If anyone thinks they are getting a deal at the National, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you

Seriously, I believe most dealers don’t need to sell these days. They can sit and hold or sell on another platform. Totally different than the old days.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Seriously, I believe most dealers don’t need to sell these days. They can sit and hold or sell on another platform. Totally different than the old days.

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

I think some of it is they made a killing on cards during the pandemic and banked or invested that money in the stock market. All this talk about a crash and hard landing recession never happened..the stock market is on track this year to do quite well, inflation is coming down and will continue further lower. The economy is not as bad as some media wants you to believe..sure cards are down a little but other then commercial real estate the us is still doing quite well. People are still traveling, and vacationing in record numbers.

[ClementeFanOh]

I have attended somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen Nationals. It's
been my experience that it's easy to find the "my cards are magically more
valuable than everyone else's of the same grade" dealers. However, the
notion that good deals are "impossible" to find or that "dealers always have
the upper hand" (??!!) hasn't been the case. So long as we are talking about
vintage or older and not new releases- which are a monstrosity I don't even
consider- I've found you can "comparison shop" effectively with a small
amount of organization. Be thorough, take notes on cards you want and
their cost/booth number. Most importantly, size up the guy on the other side
of the table. It's easy to thumb your nose at the guy who says "All prices
are firm", because others are likely to have what he's got while still
remembering the spirit of the word "market". There consistently have
been good finds if you are willing to log the miles on your shoes.

Trent King

[Exhibitman]

“I’m into it for more than that”. In the vernacular of Gen Z, that’s a “you” problem, not a “me” problem. The fact that you made a bad investment is not pertinent to what the card is worth here, now, today. If you are selling a card, you must recognize the market price at that point, sell it and take your financial lumps. Otherwise, you are in the card display business.

“I would lose money on this card.” The fact that I would lose money on one card is not a good metric for whether to make a deal. The proper consideration is whether it is dead inventory. If I have held a card for some time and it is not moving and not growing in price, I dump it and get my money working again.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

“I’m into it for more than that”. In the vernacular of Gen Z, that’s a “you” problem, not a “me” problem. The fact that you made a bad investment is not pertinent to what the card is worth here, now, today. If you are selling a card, you must recognize the market price at that point, sell it and take your financial lumps. Otherwise, you are in the card display business.

“I would lose money on this card.” The fact that I would lose money on one card is not a good metric for whether to make a deal. The proper consideration is whether it is dead inventory. If I have held a card for some time and it is not moving and not growing in price, I dump it and get my money working again.

I’m starting to wonder if this excuse is not the real reason why they don’t want to sell at this price. Because using this excuse is just easier than trying to argue about what it’s really worth.

It seems like in most negotiations, there’s the reason provided, and then there’s the real reason. This one feels more like the reason provided to me.

But I suppose for some people it could actually be their line of reasoning, particularly if they’ve heard it said enough times by others, and they decide it’s their actual reason…

[edhans]

I always get a hearty chuckle out of these threads. This will be my 16th consecutive National; all as a dealer. I think I can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of colleagues who said they were disappointed in their sales. So despite those "exorbitantly high prices", dealers have sufficient sales to make their time, effort and expense worth it.

I think there's an important distinction being overlooked here. If you're looking for a 1965 Mantle in PSA 7 or better, you'll find several dozen to choose from in Chicago. It's not a rare card. By all means ridicule the dealer whose price is double that of the dealer two rows over and won't negotiate. If you're considering a G&B, Old Judge cabinet, E107 HOFer, E271, T214, etc... and are using ten year old VCP data, then you're sure to be disappointed and may be inclined to bemoan those money-grubbing dealers asking such ridiculous prices. Rare cards can't simply be replaced in the next big auction. Be prepared to pay a premium for them.

[bbsports]

I read these comments and I came to this conclusion. True, raw vintage has slowed down because there is a lot of it around. However, graded vintage in 8's and higher sell for much more because of the lower pop. They have gone up higher in price. On tobacco cards, it's grades 5 and higher. I've only done a half a dozen Nationals, but as mostly a tobacco cards seller, I tell new customers not to buy from the first day. I tell them to write my booth number down and walk around the rest of the day. Come back the next day and then we do business. The most common line that a customer says at at the National is "Can you do better?" Most dealers try to acknowledge the customer. A few may say that sales are firm. I send very few cards to auction houses. I like selling rare and high grade cards at the National. It makes my booth much more special. I wish all customers the best at the National and success to all the dealers. Hopefully this National will break all attendance records.

[Snapolit1]

In hindsight I made a few collossal blunders at past Nationals. Some guy wanted $6000 for a 1932 US Caramel Gehrig. PSA 6. Wouldn't take plastic and I wasn't heading out into Chicago to round up 60 $100 bills. No ATM in the world will give you that much cash, so I would have likely had to go into town and found a Chase bank somewhere that was open. A ridiculous hassle, but looking at the price of that card today maybe I should have figured it out.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

In hindsight I made a few collossal blunders at past Nationals. Some guy wanted $6000 for a 1932 US Caramel Gehrig. PSA 6. Wouldn't take plastic and I wasn't heading out into Chicago to round up 60 $100 bills. No ATM in the world will give you that much cash, so I would have likely had to go into town and found a Chase bank somewhere that was open. A ridiculous hassle, but looking at the price of that card today maybe I should have figured it out.

You also can go to the casino right down the road they usually have hi limit atms that will give you a lot more than standard atms.

[Seven]

Last National, as the convention went on, I was able to get reasonable prices on a couple of different Mantle's that I purchased. I think if there's a will there's a way, it just requires a lot of searching and negotiating. I was walking an easy 15K steps a day at the convention center alone just moving around.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

Because maybe not everyone attending the National has the same perspective as those who are posting on this thread. Run of the mill material is gonna be taken back with anyone who brings it there and over prices it. Condition or rarity or scare issues will sell and will sell for record prices. Happens at any show...any auction.

[Rich Klein]

The other aspect I always say (and I will stress this usually does not apply to me as I'm a lower end guy nowadays). If you are looking for what we call in the hobby the "White Whale" and you see said item at a vendor table at the NSCC and you know the price is reasonable -- just buy said item if you can. I can't tell you how many times I heard the story, well I knew it was what I wanted and it was a good deal and I did not pull the trigger. And sure enough. an hour later you went back to the table and someone else bought said item

[jethrod3]

I'm looking for a few key stars for some of the sets I'm completing, and if I'm successful at getting a couple of them, even in the condition I want so that they are matched condition-wise with the rest of the cards in my near-sets, I know I will overpay. But, at least I'll be able to handle the cards and see any potential issues that I may not be able to see in an enlarged image of cards posted online by an auction house. And I'll be able to compare probably 10 different cards in that grade at various dealers at the show.

But I don't think the majority of my purchases will be impacted badly from price inflation because I still have quite a few commons to purchase, and commons in VG-Ex condition had been going for reasonable prices when I last attended a National 2 years ago. That goes for the more obscure issues (I'm working on my 1962 Salada baseball set). I don't anticipate prices will be jacked up too considerably this year either. Well, at least I'm hoping that's the case!

[Republicaninmass]

National pricing has usually been "ahead of the curve". Something to be said for an In person, immediate transaction over ebay.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

National pricing has usually been "ahead of the curve". Something to be said for an In person, immediate transaction over ebay.

Yes, it definitely caters to the "I 'need' this card yesterday" crowd, which there have always been a lot of in this hobby.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

It's so popular nobody goes anymore...

Dealers who had booths last year got shut out this year, so apparently someone is selling something to someone at a good enough rate that others want in on the action and can't get it.

I will also say if I had been shopping last year at AC I found literally dozens of items that were priced reasonable. I like odd things so maybe that was part of it, but I like OLD odd things and there were definitely reasonable prices on stuff I thought was cool.

[Tyruscobb]

The best deals are not at the national. They are in the few weeks before the national from those going to it. Attendees, seeking to raise capital to purchase their white whales at the national, usually are more willing to move existing cards and negotiate. My haul will come from them; not the overpriced national.

[brass_rat]

An article from SCD, November 1979.

[bbcard1]

I have found the national to be a great place to go to reconnect and make friends, a bad place to buy cards. The only real buys I have gotten were when I took the time to dig through massive quarter bins, but that's really not what you go to the National for. TBH, I haven't found all that much luck looking for the obscure things on my checklist either. I have been looking for a Jacksonville Jaguars team issue of Chris Parker for years without a sniff of luck.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I have found the national to be a great place to go to reconnect and make friends, a bad place to buy cards. The only real buys I have gotten were when I took the time to dig through massive quarter bins, but that's really not what you go to the National for.

Well, what the heck else is it for? I've pulled some amazing stuff over the years because I roll up my sleeves and go at it. I get to the show when it opens, stay to the close every day, and spend the whole day each day sifting through stuff until the holder cuts on my fingers need bandaging (and I have bandages and tape in my bag so i can clean up and go right back to it). Then again, I am a picker by nature. The thing I love most about collecting is the pick, spotting the gold in the scrap pile. Reminds me of finding boxes of cards at junk shops or receiving boxes of cards from family friends who were throwing their kids' cards away, like when I was a kid. Sometimes it can seem pretty ridiculous that I sit around sifting through ‘junk’, but it pays off, like the time I was going through a $0.10 box at the National. I got some crap for that from fellow collectors passing by, but that was just fine by me because I was mining a run of high grade 1970s football and hockey in that box, and I was pulling a stack of $1-$50 cards out of there. I spent $10 in half an hour and walked away with hundreds of dollars in resale value. I will take that deal all day, every day, but that never happens if you turn up your nose and refuse to put in the work.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

An article from SCD, November 1979.

Great post Steve. So, even in the Good’ol days of yore, articles were written about prices and the hobby was about money with cards appreciating and dealers looking to get top prices.

Those who say that the hobby used to not be about money/flipping/investment are not telling the full story. I started collecting in 1982 and everyone had price guides, trades only happened if the values were relatively equal, everyone opened boxes looking for the rookies and chucked the commons, and price was a (if not) the primary consideration behind what someone bought or sold.

While much has changed in the “hobby”, it’s still largely the same.

[brass_rat]

Exactly. . Even hobby publications in the 1960s regularly commented on rapid price appreciation.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Great post Steve. So, even in the Good’ol days of yore, articles were written about prices and the hobby was about money with cards appreciating and dealers looking to get top prices.

While much has changed in the “hobby”, it’s still largely the same.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's so popular nobody goes anymore...

Dealers who had booths last year got shut out this year, so apparently someone is selling something to someone at a good enough rate that others want in on the action and can't get it.

I will also say if I had been shopping last year at AC I found literally dozens of items that were priced reasonable. I like odd things so maybe that was part of it, but I like OLD odd things and there were definitely reasonable prices on stuff I thought was cool.

Most of the dealers at the National are there to sell. I know I have been for the 12 Nationals I have previously set up at. Certainly, there are some museums there in which the dealers could care less if they sell anything or not but the vast majority are there to sell.

If you think you are going to find a T206 Green Border Cobb in a PSA 5 for a bargain price, then you are going to the wrong place.

However, deals will be had all over the room from the first row to the last on cards, autographs, and memorabilia. You just have to look, ask for pricing, and negotiate.