Am I the only one???

[Joshchisox08]

Alright time to get something off of my chest. Call me selfish/jealous/envious/etc.

I was wondering if other collectors on here or elsewhere feel the same about a certain something.

Like others I don't seem to have the highest budget to be buying the cards I wish/hope/dream I could get. Then you see others who have multiple duplicates/triplicates/etc of the same cards you're wishing/hoping/dreaming of owning.

Once in awhile you even have a glimmer of hope to get one around or sniffing your price range and BAM!!!! one of those collectors who have 85 of the same card swipes it out from you right under the rug. Keep in mind you don't own a single example.

I'm not calling anyone out just wondering and thinking I can't be the only one who has these thoughts. Jealousy and getting frustrated at examples like above. It's hard to admit to it. On one hand the other person has the money and obviously I don't just expect them to say "hey here you go you don't have one". On the other hand you kind of do expect that like "hey guy! you have more than one of these how about saving some for those who don't".

Mixed thoughts and feelings. Hopefully others can relate to this.

[Rookiemonster]

I kind of came to terms with it . You know like I'll get afford a t206 Wagner or a 1952 topps mantle . If I could I might try for more then one . What gets me some times is if I buy a card like 1960 sandy Koufax and I feel excited about it .
Then you see some one with a high end run of all his cards . It demoralizing a bit .

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

What gets me some times is if I buy a card like 1960 sandy Koufax and I feel excited about it .
Then you see some one with a high end run of all his cards . It demoralizing a bit .

This is precisely what I was getting at.

[Orioles1954]

I work in this hobby. I have seen and been around it all. There will ALWAYS be someone with something better, nicer, greater, etc. There will ALWAYS be someone with endless amounts of money who doesn't appreciate what they have. That's when you have to make a decision. Will I appreciate and want what I have or will I seek to compare myself with others? The former will bring satisfaction while the latter will never bring contentment.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I work in this hobby. I have seen and been around it all. There will ALWAYS be someone with something better, nicer, greater, etc. There will ALWAYS be someone with endless amounts of money who doesn't appreciate what they have. That's when you have to make a decision. Will I appreciate and want what I have or will I seek to compare myself with others? The former will bring satisfaction while the latter will never bring contentment.

+1

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I work in this hobby. I have seen and been around it all. There will ALWAYS be someone with something better, nicer, greater, etc. There will ALWAYS be someone with endless amounts of money who doesn't appreciate what they have. That's when you have to make a decision. Will I appreciate and want what I have or will I seek to compare myself with others? The former will bring satisfaction while the latter will never bring contentment.

+1 there. Plus, if you're interested in obtaining quite valuable cards, there are basically two ways to do so. You can have more money than you know that to do with and be on "the trailing edge" of the market, so to speak, buying such cards as the '52 Topps Mantle for $400,000 in PSA 8, just because you can, and want the best available, or you can try to be on "the cutting edge," going outside the box, pursuing cards that are rare to extremely rare, yet currently very quiet in the marketplace. You just have to think outside the box, focusing primarily upon rarity, significance and the best condition you can find or afford.

I remember when the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth came out of the chute in the Copeland auction, circa 1991 (?), and went for $6,000. The majority of us were thinking along the lines of "what in the world is that, and why would anyone pay six grand for one?" The buyer was on the cutting edge, rather than the trailing edge (can you say $694,000 for one graded poor to fair now?), whether he knew it or not. Go back twenty years via a reputable price guide and you will find T 210 Joe Jackson's valued in the low four figure range, rather than six, and E107 Youngs and Wagners similarily priced.

John J. Pittman adopted this as his philosophy in coins. A chemical engineer with Eastman Kodak, he was never able to afford the mega-priced "trophy" coins of his time, so instead focused upon the rare and significant in the highest grade possible in quiet areas of collecting that were within his price range. After five to six decades, he had amassed a collection which brought about $40 million collectively in several auctions following his death.

Best of luck,

Larry

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

+1 there. Plus, if you're interested in obtaining quite valuable cards, there are basically two ways to do so. You can have more money than you know that to do with and be on "the trailing edge" of the market, so to speak, buying such cards as the '52 Topps Mantle for $400,000 in PSA 8, just because you can, and want the best available, or you can try to be on "the cutting edge," going outside the box, pursuing cards that are rare to extremely rare, yet currently very quiet in the marketplace. You just have to think outside the box, focusing primarily upon rarity, significance and the best condition you can find or afford.

I remember when the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth came out of the chute in the Copeland auction, circa 1991 (?), and went for $6,000. The majority of us were thinking along the lines of "what in the world is that, and why would anyone pay six grand for one?" The buyer was on the cutting edge, rather than the trailing edge (can you say $694,000 for one graded poor to fair now?), whether he knew it or not. Go back twenty years via a reputable price guide and you will find T 210 Joe Jackson's valued in the low four figure range, rather than six, and E107 Youngs and Wagners similarily priced.

Best of luck,

Larry

good advice!

[Joshwesley]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

+1 there. Plus, if you're interested in obtaining quite valuable cards, there are basically two ways to do so. You can have more money than you know that to do with and be on "the trailing edge" of the market, so to speak, buying such cards as the '52 Topps Mantle for $400,000 in PSA 8, just because you can, and want the best available, or you can try to be on "the cutting edge," going outside the box, pursuing cards that are rare to extremely rare, yet currently very quiet in the marketplace. You just have to think outside the box, focusing primarily upon rarity, significance and the best condition you can find or afford.

I remember when the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth came out of the chute in the Copeland auction, circa 1991 (?), and went for $6,000. The majority of us were thinking along the lines of "what in the world is that, and why would anyone pay six grand for one?" The buyer was on the cutting edge, rather than the trailing edge (can you say $694,000 for one graded poor to fair now?), whether he knew it or not. Go back twenty years via a reputable price guide and you will find T 210 Joe Jackson's valued in the low four figure range, rather than six, and E107 Youngs and Wagners similarily priced.

John J. Pittman adopted this as his philosophy in coins. A chemical engineer with Eastman Kodak, he was never able to afford the mega-priced "trophy" coins of his time, so instead focused upon the rare and significant in the highest grade possible in quiet areas of collecting that were within his price range. After five to six decades, he had amassed a collection which brought about $40 million collectively in several auctions following his death.

Best of luck,

Larry

Incredible....

What's the next card to go up in value like the Ruth of the Mantle.... or has everything basically topped out?
If you had 10k to spend right now and were for-casting a card that would potentially sky rocket 20-30 years from now what would that be...

Just for fun. lol

[t206fix]

When it happens to me, I just remember that it's just cardboard

Also, I look at others' collections and drool, but there are a few (very few) who look at my collection and slightly salivate...

[Jeffrompa]

It can be frustrating . There are some serious 24/7/365 collectors that have some deep pockets .

[chipperhank44]

As a collector with a limited budget, I have found that the only way to close the gap is with hard work. My strategy is as follows:

Rule #1: Don't look for cards in the same places as high rollers (Heritage, REA, etc.) Look at smaller auction houses and grind out garage/estate sales.

Rule #2: Search more often and with less precision. Grind out ebay searches. Be the first one to see that steal of a BIN. Or be the only one who grinds out a search as generic as "old baseball card" or "vintage baseball". Everyone can search "Ty Cobb", not everyone (especially not your high roller competition) will grind through thousands of listings to find that one special card with no player name in the listing.

Rule #3: Be knowledgeable enough to buy ungraded cards. If you know your stuff you can buy ungraded and cut your competition in half (especially those high rollers who only buy graded). Never leave home without a loupe and a black light.

[Eggoman]

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

As a collector with a limited budget, I have found that the only way to close the gap is with hard work. My strategy is as follows:

Rule #1: Don't look for cards in the same places as high rollers (Heritage, REA, etc.) Look at smaller auction houses and grind out garage/estate sales.

Rule #2: Search more often and with less precision. Grind out ebay searches. Be the first one to see that steal of a BIN. Or be the only one who grinds out a search as generic as "old baseball card" or "vintage baseball". Everyone can search "Ty Cobb", not everyone (especially not your high roller competition) will grind through thousands of listings to find that one special card with no player name in the listing.

Rule #3: Be knowledgeable enough to buy ungraded cards. If you know your stuff you can buy ungraded and cut your competition in half (especially those high rollers who only buy graded). Never leave home without a loupe and a black light.

ABSOLUTELY! I STILL enjoy the hope-against-hope of finding SOMETHING at a Garage/Estate Sale/Flea Market or dingy, dumpy antique shop, whatever...because Hey! YAH NEVER KNOW!

[Laxcat]

+1 to Rule #3

If you are frustrated already, searching 1000's of random listings will make you go mad.

My advice: don't buy a bunch of readily available stuff. If your budget is not depleted from over purchasing you have a higher chance of snagging the card you really want.

[jsq]

you mention loupe and black light to determine if a card has been tampered with. i vaguely recall reading in another collectible paper area that a black light worked extremely well to detect doctoring of the paper.

could someone elaborate if this is accurate with baseball cards? and specifically how effective it is?

also, does the the black light pick up on these same anamolies inside a slab?

and do the grading companies use a black light on all higher end value cards?

just wanting to understand,

thanks
jsq

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

As a collector with a limited budget, I have found that the only way to close the gap is with hard work. My strategy is as follows:

Rule #1: Don't look for cards in the same places as high rollers (Heritage, REA, etc.) Look at smaller auction houses and grind out garage/estate sales.

Rule #2: Search more often and with less precision. Grind out ebay searches. Be the first one to see that steal of a BIN. Or be the only one who grinds out a search as generic as "old baseball card" or "vintage baseball". Everyone can search "Ty Cobb", not everyone (especially not your high roller competition) will grind through thousands of listings to find that one special card with no player name in the listing.

Rule #3: Be knowledgeable enough to buy ungraded cards. If you know your stuff you can buy ungraded and cut your competition in half (especially those high rollers who only buy graded). Never leave home without a loupe and a black light.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Alright time to get something off of my chest. Call me selfish/jealous/envious/etc.

I was wondering if other collectors on here or elsewhere feel the same about a certain something.

Like others I don't seem to have the highest budget to be buying the cards I wish/hope/dream I could get. Then you see others who have multiple duplicates/triplicates/etc of the same cards you're wishing/hoping/dreaming of owning.

Once in awhile you even have a glimmer of hope to get one around or sniffing your price range and BAM!!!! one of those collectors who have 85 of the same card swipes it out from you right under the rug. Keep in mind you don't own a single example.

I'm not calling anyone out just wondering and thinking I can't be the only one who has these thoughts. Jealousy and getting frustrated at examples like above. It's hard to admit to it. On one hand the other person has the money and obviously I don't just expect them to say "hey here you go you don't have one". On the other hand you kind of do expect that like "hey guy! you have more than one of these how about saving some for those who don't".

Mixed thoughts and feelings. Hopefully others can relate to this.

How do you who is buying the card you had hoped to get?

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you who is buying the card you had hoped to get?

I said I wasn't going to name names

And not only necessarily just missing out on an auction it's the fact that I could yearn to own a particular t206 and there are those with a back run of the same player when I can't even get just a "poor" grade example.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I said I wasn't going to name names

And not only necessarily just missing out on an auction it's the fact that I could yearn to own a particular t206 and there are those with a back run of the same player when I can't even get just a "poor" grade example.

I'm not sure that a back run would qualify as multiple copies of the same card. By nature of the different backs, wouldn't they be different cards?

Not singling you out, just offering my perspective.

[ullmandds]

do I sense green cobb envy????

[Jewish-collector]

As a very low budget collector, it's taken me a long time to realize that I can't compete with the very wealthy collectors. Since I'm not a big player in the hobby, these guys really don't communicate with me. I don't take it personally, It's just the way it is. I just try to enjoy the hobby the best I can.

This is one of the hobbies where money is a huge factor. Other hobbies like playing sports, computer gaming, fishing, hunting, camping, sailing, photography, etc,... are more about technique and/or skill rather than money.

[Stetson_1883]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

As a very low budget collector, it's taken me a long time to realize that I can't compete with the very wealthy collectors. Since I'm not a big player in the hobby, these guys really don't communicate with me. I don't take it personally, It's just the way it is. I just try to enjoy the hobby the best I can.

This is one of the hobbies where money is a huge factor. Other hobbies like playing sports, computer gaming, fishing, hunting, camping, sailing, photography, etc,... are more about technique and/or skill rather than money.

You may wanna change your handle buddy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I said I wasn't going to name names

And not only necessarily just missing out on an auction it's the fact that I could yearn to own a particular t206 and there are those with a back run of the same player when I can't even get just a "poor" grade example.

OK I see. I remember that feeling when back in the day (God knows why) I was trying to put together a high grade 65T set. It seemed that no matter what I bid on the lower pop cards, there were guys who would go higher -- and back then they weren't anonymous either lol.

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK I see. I remember that feeling when back in the day (God knows why) I was trying to put together a high grade 65T set. It seemed that no matter what I bid on the lower pop cards, there were guys who would go higher -- and back then they weren't anonymous either lol.

Same. Except '62 Hi #'s

[Cozumeleno]

I'm a pretty small fish as well, Josh. You just have to pick and choose your spots and as someone else said, it's not personal.

Keep everything in perspective and remember that everything is relative. For as many high-rollers as you are envious of, there are even more collectors who would kill to have the 250 or so T206s you do.

Also, when people buy duplicates, there's always a purpose. Maybe they feel it's a great deal and can flip it - a lot of people fund their collections this way and without doing that, they wouldn't be able to afford the things they want. Maybe they are constantly upgrading. Maybe they just want to hoard that card. We all collect for different reasons. A lot of things come into play.

Stay connected, too. The more people know what you need the more they will look out for you. I had several people reaching out to me here once they found out that knew I was looking for specific cards. It might feel mundane putting out the same requests on the B/S/T, but keep at it.

Best of luck.

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Alright time to get something off of my chest. Call me selfish/jealous/envious/etc.

I was wondering if other collectors on here or elsewhere feel the same about a certain something.

Like others I don't seem to have the highest budget to be buying the cards I wish/hope/dream I could get. Then you see others who have multiple duplicates/triplicates/etc of the same cards you're wishing/hoping/dreaming of owning.

Once in awhile you even have a glimmer of hope to get one around or sniffing your price range and BAM!!!! one of those collectors who have 85 of the same card swipes it out from you right under the rug. Keep in mind you don't own a single example.

I'm not calling anyone out just wondering and thinking I can't be the only one who has these thoughts. Jealousy and getting frustrated at examples like above. It's hard to admit to it. On one hand the other person has the money and obviously I don't just expect them to say "hey here you go you don't have one". On the other hand you kind of do expect that like "hey guy! you have more than one of these how about saving some for those who don't".

Mixed thoughts and feelings. Hopefully others can relate to this.

[drcy]

Black light identifies alterations in that added material (such as in restoration) will often fluoresce differently under black light. It's very effective for large items such as posters and paintings, but likely less effective for small items like cards because they are small.

It's used to identify modern reprints and forgeries of paper items, because modern paper often fluoresces very brightly due to chemicals added to Post WWII paper. One key is you can identify a modern fake even when you are unfamiliar with the genre (fine art, Civil war memorabilia, silent movie programs), because you can tell the paper is too modern. You may know nothing about WWI history or memorabilia but can identify a modern reprint of a WWI pamphlet or poster with your $9 black light.

Black lights actually test the atomic makeup of the material-- the frequency and intensity of the light given back is determined at the atomic level. It's just that colors and intensity are simple to interpret by anyone. You don't have to be a nuclear physicist to know that modern paper will often fluoresce brightly or that genuine antique vaseline glass is supposed to fluoresce bright yellow green.

Another big thing to look at is gloss. Added materials and reprints will usually have a different gloss and authentic gloss is one of the hardest things to reproduce. Some forgers will try to mask alterations (such as to make rare variations) by 'varnishing' the entire area, but the varnish will make the entire card different in gloss than the other cards in the issue. And if you're adding materials, such as glossing the entire card, you're also going to be simultaneously changing the black light fluorescence.

This is why it's recommended to remove a raw card from a penny sleeve or top loader before purchase. Because even a penny sleeve can hide and alterations that will be noticed when the card is held at a sharp angle to raking light. Holding the card at an angle you will often be able to see any added coloring or materials. You can often see black pen marks on a 1971 Topps upon close inspection, but they may be hidden when in an album or holder.

Major alterations to large items, such as posters and paintings, are usually easy to identify, often including just by the naked eye. Holding an item up to a bright light (the 'see through' test) will reveal many alterations, including added ink or paint. It's a good way to identify reprints, when comparing it to a known genuine card.

Infrared viewers are also used to identify alterations-- infrared is a different frequency of light than ultraviolet (black light), so you get a different viewpoint. But a black light is usually more than enough for collectors and I think much more useful. I don't think anyone on this board needs to go out an get an infrared viewer.

Most 'forensic light' examinations are giving you looks at an item that the naked eye can't see. IR and ultraviolet tests look at an item in lights invisible to human eyes, and microscopes give you enlarged views you can't see with naked eyes. Gloss, which actually is a sophisticated if simple test, is something the naked eye can see, it's just that collectors have to reminded to look at it. Taking a card out of a holder and looking at it at a sharp angle is done with the naked eyes.

[midmo]

[deltaarnet]

Originally Posted by drcy

Black light identifies alterations in that added material (such as in restoration) will often fluoresce differently under black light. It's very effective for large items such as posters and paintings, but likely less effective for small items like cards because they are small.

It's used to identify modern reprints and forgeries of paper items, because modern paper often fluoresces very brightly due to chemicals added to Post WWII paper. One key is you can identify a modern fake even when you are unfamiliar with the genre (fine art, Civil war memorabilia, silent movie programs), because you can tell the paper is too modern. You may know nothing about WWI history or memorabilia but can identify a modern reprint of a WWI pamphlet or poster with your $9 black light.

Black lights actually test the atomic makeup of the material-- the frequency and intensity of the light given back is determined at the atomic level. It's just that colors and intensity are simple to interpret by anyone. You don't have to be a nuclear physicist to know that modern paper will often fluoresce brightly or that genuine antique vaseline glass is supposed to fluoresce bright yellow green.

Another big thing to look at is gloss. Added materials and reprints will usually have a different gloss and authentic gloss is one of the hardest things to reproduce. Some forgers will try to mask alterations (such as to make rare variations) by 'varnishing' the entire area, but the varnish will make the entire card different in gloss than the other cards in the issue. And if you're adding materials, such as glossing the entire card, you're also going to be simultaneously changing the black light fluorescence.

This is why it's recommended to remove a raw card from a penny sleeve or top loader before purchase. Because even a penny sleeve can hide and alterations that will be noticed when the card is held at a sharp angle to raking light. Holding the card at an angle you will often be able to see any added coloring or materials. You can often see black pen marks on a 1971 Topps upon close inspection, but they may be hidden when in an album or holder.

Major alterations to large items, such as posters and paintings, are usually easy to identify, often including just by the naked eye. Holding an item up to a bright light (the 'see through' test) will reveal many alterations, including added ink or paint. It's a good way to identify reprints, when comparing it to a known genuine card.

Infrared viewers are also used to identify alterations-- infrared is a different frequency of light than ultraviolet (black light), so you get a different viewpoint. But a black light is usually more than enough for collectors and I think much more useful. I don't think anyone on this board needs to go out an get an infrared viewer.

Most 'forensic light' examinations are giving you looks at an item that the naked eye can't see. IR and ultraviolet tests look at an item in lights invisible to human eyes, and microscopes give you enlarged views you can't see with naked eyes. Gloss, which actually is a sophisticated if simple test, is something the naked eye can see, it's just that collectors have to reminded to look at it. Taking a card out of a holder and looking at it at a sharp angle is done with the naked eyes.

Thank you for the information.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

I'm a pretty small fish as well, Josh. You just have to pick and choose your spots and as someone else said, it's not personal.

Keep everything in perspective and remember that everything is relative. For as many high-rollers as you are envious of, there are even more collectors who would kill to have the 250 or so T206s you do.

Best of luck.

Great point and sometimes as much as I've accomplished it's hard to stay humble. But you're right. As I stated above the goal is 500 someday! I think it's obtainable, well hopefully.

Through few interactions you seem like a stand up dude!
Contacts I've got a few! Can't praise Scott and Luke enough! They've given me great insight and just all in all good guys to talk to.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

You are welcome. I agree, I love this place as well. Hope to make some purchases from some fellow board members this year as I wade into T206. Good luck!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[ullmandds]

what some newbies may not realize is that some of us have been collecting vintage for decades. Some Cards purchased decades ago have appreciated to the point where selling can fund other "big" purchases.

I never spent more than $40 on a card...vintage or modern until the early 2000's.

Just collect what you like and want...and don't worry about others.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

what some newbies may not realize is that some of us have been collecting vintage for decades. Some Cards purchased decades ago have appreciated to the point where selling can fund other "big" purchases.

I never spent more than $40 on a card...vintage or modern until the early 2000's.

Just collect what you like and want...and don't worry about others.

Man dare I say I wish I were older haha.

[ullmandds]

id trade away my collection to be 28 again!!!!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

id trade away my collection to be 28 again!!!!

A huge +1 to this.

[tedzan]

Save your collection, and forget "28"

The 30's....40's....50's were my best years.


Seriously, though, most of us "dinosaurs" who have tons of cardboard on display in this forum should not be envied by anyone.
When you younger dudes get to be our age, you too will have formidable collections.

Just be thankful that some of us here are willing to share with you our 30 - 40 years of tremendous experiences in this hobby.


T-Rex TED
.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

id trade away my collection to be 28 again!!!!

Interesting proposition, Pete--I would personally have to take some time to consider that!

All the best,

Larry