1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?

[investinrookies]

Purchased this off eBay and from what I gather it’s an authentic copy but altered. The seller requested a min grade of 5 and it came back altered. Given that PSA deemed altered what’s the best way to sub this to make sure it’s gets slabbed? I need to tell them slab if altered correct ? I like the eye appeal of this copy so I was ok buying an altered copy.






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[Beercan collector]

Yep - slab if authentic
If that card is authentic you got a pretty good deal ,
The seller should’ve had it Slabbed authentic.
You can only hope the PSA “altered-do not holder” penny sleeve actually belongs with that card . (It Looks good to me)
Have PSA grade as they see fit , maybe you’ll get a number - but it needs to be Slabbed considering the value involved .

[investinrookies]

Yeah I’ve done a lot of checking on it. Had all the minor print defects on the back and front as well. I’m thinking I will crack it out and submit correctly to get slabbed. I really don’t see where it’s altered either maybe it’s cleaned?


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[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Yeah I’ve done a lot of checking on it. Had all the minor print defects on the back and front as well. I’m thinking I will crack it out and submit correctly to get slabbed. I really don’t see where it’s altered either maybe it’s cleaned?


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Oh .. I didn’t realize it was still ASA graded , 🤔

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Oh .. I didn’t realize it was still ASA graded , 🤔

I don't follow? ASA is ancient and long since gone, no? So assumed it was taken out of the ASA holder and submitted to PSA?

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't follow? ASA is ancient and long since gone, no? So assumed it was taken out of the ASA holder and submitted to PSA?

No it was subbed in the ASA holder. The seller sent me the sub form


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[Peter_Spaeth]

That "DO NOT HOLDER" seems pretty ominous unless that's standard.

[investinrookies]

Pretty sure it’s standard, they don’t holder altered cards unless you specify, which is what im asking about. I want them to holder the card .

Also looking at the way the seller subbed it with min grade of 5, it didn’t make grade and wasn’t specified to holder if altered.

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[CardPadre]

So are you going to specifically add the request to encapsulate even if altered or are you going to risk paying for a $499 "do not holder" cardsaver?

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

So are you going to specifically add the request to encapsulate even if altered or are you going to risk paying for a $499 "do not holder" cardsaver?

pretty sure I can sub to be graded and if it doesn't get a number grade have the encapsulate it as authentic altered. Assuming id have an outside chance to get a number grade if I did it this way and cracked it out?

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

pretty sure I can sub to be graded and if it doesn't get a number grade have the encapsulate it as authentic altered. Assuming id have an outside chance to get a number grade if I did it this way and cracked it out?

You do have to request that, specifically. Otherwise you're going to end up with a cardsaver if it's deemed to be altered.

If you don't absolutely have to have it in a PSA slab, SGC might be a great option. A little less expensive to slab and you can just check a box when you make your submission so they will encapsulate it regardless if it receives a grade or is determined to be altered.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

You do have to request that, specifically. Otherwise you're going to end up with a cardsaver if it's deemed to be altered.

If you don't absolutely have to have it in a PSA slab, SGC might be a great option. A little less expensive to slab and you can just check a box when you make your submission so they will encapsulate it regardless if it receives a grade or is determined to be altered.

No it doesn't have to be in a PSA slab, but I want it in a slab. I like the SGC option you pointed out. If they deem it altered the SGC slab would just say "Authentic" if the card is deemed authentic but altered correct?

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

No it doesn't have to be in a PSA slab, but I want it in a slab. I like the SGC option you pointed out. If they deem it altered the SGC slab would just say "Authentic" if the card is deemed authentic but altered correct?

No, it will say Authentic and then the specific reason it was determined to be altered.

Or sometimes will say Authentic Altered if there are maybe multiple issues…not sure exactly when they use that version versus the more specific verbiage.

But I don’t think you can get a straight Authentic if they find an alteration.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

No, it will say Authentic and then the specific reason it was determined to be altered.



Or sometimes will say Authentic Altered if there are maybe multiple issues…not sure exactly when they use that version versus the more specific verbiage.



But I don’t think you can get a straight Authentic if they find an alteration.

I know I have seen altered SGC cards that just say "A" so I was curious. Im not totally sold with PSAs assessment that this one is altered either. I think sometimes they are biased or don't grade accordingly if you ship encapsulated in a different holder, especially one that has been gone for years and not very reputable. Didn't buy it for a number grade however, like I said bought it for the eye appeal willing to accept that its likely altered. Who knows, still might get a number grade maybe with SGC over PSA especially if I crack it out?

[CardPadre]

Yeah, the “A” is gone now with SGC. Can’t get a slab that just says that anymore.

[Yoda]

ASA grading was the brainchild of Alan Hager, who many will remember. He was a retail dealer, wholesaler, author and grading company owner. He was also one of the great con men in the industry at the time. Virtually any high grade card of his slabbed by ASA has a good chance of being altered, but I never heard of any cases of him have ASA "grade" a bogus card. If resubmitted to PSA, you should certainly get an authentic and, now that PSA is providing graders notes you can pinpoint the alteration.
It is a beautiful card much coveted by football collectors.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by Yoda

ASA grading was the brainchild of Alan Hager, who many will remember. He was a retail dealer, wholesaler, author and grading company owner. He was also one of the great con men in the industry at the time. Virtually any high grade card of his slabbed by ASA has a good chance of being altered, but I never heard of any cases of him have ASA "grade" a bogus card. If resubmitted to PSA, you should certainly get an authentic and, now that PSA is providing graders notes you can pinpoint the alteration.
It is a beautiful card much coveted by football collectors.

Thank you thats great information and makes me feel even better about my purchase. I’m going to crack it out and sub accordingly to make sure it gets holdered.


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[Leon]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Thank you thats great information and makes me feel even better about my purchase. I’m going to crack it out and sub accordingly to make sure it gets holdered.


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It sounds like you have litte to lose in getting it reslabbed. Let us know how ti turns out. Most of us in the hobby for very long have had ASA holders. Most are just overgraded.
.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by Leon

It sounds like you have litte to lose in getting it reslabbed. Let us know how ti turns out. Most of us in the hobby for very long have had ASA holders. Most are just overgraded.
.

I’m excited to get it re-holdered and now looking for an outside chance it even gets a number grade. That would be the ultimate score if it does. Card arrives tomorrow from the seller I’m anxious to check it out in hand and with a black light to see if I can find any areas of alteration but mostly just to hold it and verify it’s authenticity for myself.


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[investinrookies]

Have the card in hand today. After careful inspection it’s definitely 100% authentic. No light shines through the card and everything checks out against my other chicles. Looking at it under a black light I cannot see any areas of obvious alteration. No die or liquid spots show up and the corners and edges dont show signs either. Normally some signs of trimming show up under black light. The card measures up full size as well. I’m not seeing any signs of alteration or why it was deemed altered. This thing is beautiful in hand! Maybe one of the alteration experts can chime in here but I sure don’t see it?






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[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Have the card in hand today. After careful inspection it’s definitely 100% authentic. No light shines through the card and everything checks out against my other chicles. Looking at it under a black light I cannot see any areas of obvious alteration. No die or liquid spots show up and the corners and edges dont show signs either. Normally some signs of trimming show up under black light. The card measures up full size as well. I’m not seeing any signs of alteration or why it was deemed altered. This thing is beautiful in hand! Maybe one of the alteration experts can chime in here but I sure don’t see it?






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Congrats and good luck with the grading. I just don’t think I see enough border around that card for my liking. But I don’t know for sure that the edges have been messed with, by any means.

There are expected variations in the cutting process of old cards but this just seems slightly too small. Take a look at the borders of this one that I will post below (not my card) and yours below it.

And trying to measure the size of a card while in a slab is a little tricky because your measuring device isn’t flush with the card exactly. But it’s tough to say for sure.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'm somebody who has spent most of his life in another part of the hobby, but have still been looking at cards for pushing 40 years. Since I certainly don't profess cards to be my area of expertise, feel free to shoot me down! But what I am seeing here, besides what the fellow above me pointed out:

--top right corner is looking pretty funky from the front view.

--The corners and edges have a very strange wear/staining that feels quite manufactured.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I'm somebody who has spent most of his life in another part of the hobby, but have still been looking at cards for pushing 40 years. Since I certainly don't profess cards to be my area of expertise, feel free to shoot me down! But what I am seeing here, besides what the fellow above me pointed out:

--top right corner is looking pretty funky from the front view.

--The corners and edges have a very strange wear/staining that feels quite manufactured.

Don’t disagree about any of the observations. I just didn’t see any new cardboard or areas of brighter under black lighting. Took some additional pics once I cracked it out.






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[CardPadre]

Really pretty, nice pics. I'll be excited to see the results.

[pawpawdiv9]

First Congrats!
Since you stated it measures good, bc i only saw the bottom left maybe wavy & top right edge a bit batwing but that could be just a card titty thing/dinged corner
It looks like a 6-8 to me. I being really optimistic you'll get a grade, but perhaps a high grade atleast 5 or more+++

[investinrookies]

Subbed to PSA today via $499 walk through 5 day rate. Figure value is 10k at minimum which is inline with the level. Put the appropriate notes on the submission form so it gets holdered no matter what. Anxious to get this one back it’s a special card either way.


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[samosa4u]

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If I were a betting man I'd bet trimmed.

[CardPadre]

How's the Nagurski coming along? I imagine you were delayed a bit by the holiday weekend but they should be cranking it out promptly this week, right?

[JustinD]

I agree with the trimming crowd, looks lightly nipped top to bottom and left to right. That said, if that's all that's wrong it would be a win in my mind.

Very interested in the results.

[investinrookies]

its moving right along should know final result soon, PSA order tracker shows its in assembly now.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I agree with the trimming crowd, looks lightly nipped top to bottom and left to right. That said, if that's all that's wrong it would be a win in my mind.



Very interested in the results.

its a win win for sure, like I said bought it because of the strong eye appeal and to get holdered as authentic. If it gets a number grade thats all house money anyway. Im not saying it can't be trimmed but again I didnt see it in hand or under black light, borders are somewhat small yes but so are many of my graded centered chicles, also it measured full size, even slightly bigger. The centered ones do also appear to have smaller boarders. Here's one for reference.

[CardPadre]

They're not going to leave you hanging over the weekend, are they?



ETA: Now I'm worried you're only getting a $499 cardsaver.



.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

They're not going to leave you hanging over the weekend, are they?



ETA: Now I'm worried you're only getting a $499 cardsaver.



.

I got the result Thursday just want to wait until it ships to my vault before I reveal. I will tell you it’s not a $499.99 card saver.


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[Madi$on18joshua]

i'm dying to know!!! I'm thinking its a high number grade!

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by Madi$on18joshua

i'm dying to know!!! I'm thinking its a high number grade!

After I had the card in hand I knew the chances to get a number grade were even better than I thought originally. I’m extremely excited my obversations of the card warranted the grade!




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[icurnmedic]

Dang right! Great to see a gem unveiled in today's market!

Quick question, did this go thru eBay guarantee program? I had not seen that mentioned.

Again congrats, great card!!

[CardPadre]

Congrats man! Well played.

[samosa4u]

HOLY $%@!
What is this worth now??? 200,000 USD ???
CONGRATS !!!!!!!!!!

[samosa4u]

This is how investinrookies is gonna' spend his whole summer

[raulus]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

HOLY $%@!
What is this worth now??? 200,000 USD ???
CONGRATS !!!!!!!!!!

From what I'm seeing from recent sales, $200k seems a little generous. Maybe $30-50k, depending on how nuts the bidders are willing to get during the auction.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Also looking at the way the seller subbed it with min grade of 5, it didn’t make grade and wasn’t specified to holder if altered.

It's completely shitty PSA has no accountability for stuff like this. The previous owner tries to get it slabbed, get's shit on by PSA...then the card gets cracked and resubmitted and meets the requirements that were set by the previous owner in his submission. Really crappy for that guy, glad it worked out for you.




.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

It's completely shitty PSA has no accountability for stuff like this. The previous owner tries to get it slabbed, get's shit on by PSA...then the card gets cracked and resubmitted and meets the requirements that were set by the previous owner in his submission. Really crappy for that guy, glad it worked out for you.

This happens all the time and everybody knows that. Ashley will see red and Tom will see blue ...

The guy before him should've just re-subbed it ...

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

This happens all the time and everybody knows that. Ashley will see red and Tom will see blue ...

The guy before him should've just re-subbed it ...

For sure it happens all the time, but how many $500 submissions (or $600, maybe $700 with shipping and insurance) does that guy feel is prudent or is able to make. We don’t know his situation, after one rejection it’s somewhat reasonable to think you’re throwing good money after bad.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

It's completely shitty PSA has no accountability for stuff like this. The previous owner tries to get it slabbed, get's shit on by PSA...then the card gets cracked and resubmitted and meets the requirements that were set by the previous owner in his submission. Really crappy for that guy, glad it worked out for you.




.

Well to be fair to PSA after I gathered more information from the seller they didn’t sub it correctly like I said. You don’t sub a card for grading that’s already holdered, that’s a cross over not grading. They also didn’t notate to holder it or specify a min grade. The seller sent me the sub form so I know this is accurate. Also, PSA wrote in the min grade so appears they had to reach out to the seller on exactly what they wanted done. Again, after I did my research on this it’s yet another reason I decided to take my chances with it knowing it would at least get an altered holder at a minimum. Seller should have just resubbed it as raw like I did.


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[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Well to be fair to PSA after I gathered more information from the seller they didn’t sub it correctly like I said. You don’t sub a card for grading that’s already holdered, that’s a cross over not grading. They also didn’t notate to holder it or specify a min grade. The seller sent me the sub form so I know this is accurate. Also, PSA wrote in the min grade so appears they had to reach out to the seller on exactly what they wanted done. Again, after I did my research on this it’s yet another reason I decided to take my chances with it knowing it would at least get an altered holder at a minimum. Seller should have just resubbed it as raw like I did.


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Yeah, I just thought they gave him a straight out “altered” result due to that cardsaver you showed. So however incorrectly he submitted it, if they didn’t just return it and kept his money, they sorted it out, evaluated the card and made a determination.

So I’m just saying if all the above is indeed the case…him going from “altered” to you as a “5.5” is sooooo much of a change of opinion to make without accountability.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Yeah, I just thought they gave him a straight out “altered” result due to that cardsaver you showed. So however incorrectly he submitted it, if they didn’t just return it and kept his money, they sorted it out, evaluated the card and made a determination.

So I’m just saying if all the above is indeed the case…him going from “altered” to you as a “5.5” is sooooo much of a change of opinion to make without accountability.

Grading is a matter of opinion not accountability. It’s important to also sub correctly and remove any possible bias when submitting with regards to submitting in holders. I submitted a raw card and got the best professional opinion at the time of grading from the given grader. I don’t see anything wrong with any of this on either side.


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[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Grading is a matter of opinion not accountability.


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It could be a matter of both, that’s all I’m really saying.

[JohnP0621]

Congratulations. You took the risk and it payed off.
Beautiful Card.

Best Regards
John P

[Peter_Spaeth]

Congratulations.

I am surprised ASA actually had a legit card in their holder.