T206 Wagner value after Mastro confesses to cutting it

[BeanTown]

I think if we can learn from history, without a doubt the value will increase. Its all about the hype and the story that goes with it. The PSA mis graded T-206 Wagner card will now become one if the most sod after cards in the sports market. It's appeal most likely will be to the wealthy who want to have it as a social statis item or a conversation piece!

Take a look at the coin market and the 1913 Liberty nickel. Most likey case was a mint worker restruck 6 coins with the 1913 year on it right before they destroyed the die. He waited 7 years before showing up at a couple of coin shows to display them. Then he marketed them by advertising a high amount of money would be paid if anyone that could come up with one.

Here is aquick story on it.

http://coins.about.com/od/famousrare...913_Nickel.htm


I'm sure there are other examples where the hype and story has made an item get record setting prices everytime it comes to the market. I think another item is a rare art painting that the UCLA library has on display. It was originally done from a husband to mock the art community because his wife's work was not accepted. This man had never painted before and hetried to make it the ugliest painting ever seen... Samething played out over the years with that item.


My guess for the price of the now trimmed (industry known) T206 PSA Wagner card is over 5 million!!! It most likely will be in the same holder tooas the "new" owner can decide what to do.

[prestigecollectibles]

I noticed the PSA 8 is not listed in the pop report. Was it always like this or was it changed? You would think the owner of the PSA 5 would claim to have the highest example graded.

[Sophiedog]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I noticed the PSA 8 is not listed in the pop report. Was it always like this or was it changed? You would think the owner of the PSA 5 would claim to have the highest example graded.

They still have it in their price list 4,000,000 for PSA8

Throwing (HOF)

Shop
45 75 120 225 400 625 1350 5500 20000

Heinie Wagner (bat on left shoulder)

Shop
16 32 50 85 140 235 565 1600+ 3200

Heinie Wagner (bat on right shoulder)

Shop
16 32 50 85 140 235 565 1600+ 3200

Honus Wagner (HOF)

Shop
400000 675000+ 1300000 1800000 2500000 4000000

Bobby Wallace (HOF)

Shop
45 75 120 215 390 635 1500 5250 26500

Ed Walsh (HOF)

Shop
45 75 120 215 395 635 1450 5350

Jack Warhop

[pokerplyr80]

I think it's been known for quite a while that he trimmed that card. I don't think it will have any impact on the value. Altered or not it's still the nicest example of the most valuable card in the hobby, by a wide margin. Way out of my league, but 5 mil sounds like a reasonable estimate to me.

No one in their right mind would ever remove it from it's current holder. The card doesn't bring any where close to 5 mil in a PSA authentic, altered holder.

[pokerplyr80]

I just saw your post Robert. I had to check the Pop report to verify for myself. I do remember seeing it before and there was an 8. I'm assuming it must have been changed. I find it hard to believe that PSA bought the card back to remove it from the population report. But I suppose according to their guarantee that's what they are supposed to do.

I just typed 00000001 into their cert verification link and it says it wasn't found in their database.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I just saw your post Robert. I had to check the Pop report to verify for myself. I do remember seeing it before and there was an 8. I'm assuming it must have been changed. I find it hard to believe that PSA bought the card back to remove it from the population report. But I suppose according to their guarantee that's what they are supposed to do.

I just typed 00000001 into their cert verification link and it says it wasn't found in their database.

If it's out of the pop and the cert database it may well have been decommissioned.

[ullmandds]

well here's another crook's account of the history of the wagner.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=24080

[Sophiedog]

Maybe they took the Wagner down until the smoke clears

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I think it's been known for quite a while that he trimmed that card. I don't think it will have any impact on the value. Altered or not it's still the nicest example of the most valuable card in the hobby, by a wide margin. Way out of my league, but 5 mil sounds like a reasonable estimate to me.

No one in their right mind would ever remove it from it's current holder. The card doesn't bring any where close to 5 mil in a PSA authentic, altered holder.

This would be my vote as well. It is still overall the nicest example of one of the two most desirable cards on the planet (the other being the 1914 Baltimore News Ruth). The story behind it and its impact on hobby history may well only increase its value.

Highest regards,

Larry

[conor912]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

The PSA mis graded T-206 Wagner card will now become one if the most sod after cards in the sports market.

Definitely.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I think if we can learn from history, without a doubt the value will increase. Its all about the hype and the story that goes with it. The PSA mis graded T-206 Wagner card will now become one if the most sod after cards in the sports market. It's appeal most likely will be to the wealthy who want to have it as a social statis item or a conversation piece!

Take a look at the coin market and the 1913 Liberty nickel. Most likey case was a mint worker restruck 6 coins with the 1913 year on it right before they destroyed the die. He waited 7 years before showing up at a couple of coin shows to display them. Then he marketed them by advertising a high amount of money would be paid if anyone that could come up with one.

Here is aquick story on it.

http://coins.about.com/od/famousrare...913_Nickel.htm


I'm sure there are other examples where the hype and story has made an item get record setting prices everytime it comes to the market. I think another item is a rare art painting that the UCLA library has on display. It was originally done from a husband to mock the art community because his wife's work was not accepted. This man had never painted before and hetried to make it the ugliest painting ever seen... Samething played out over the years with that item.


My guess for the price of the now trimmed (industry known) T206 PSA Wagner card is over 5 million!!! It most likely will be in the same holder tooas the "new" owner can decide what to do.

I think it will increase the value of the card believe it or not. It's a scandal now and the card probably would have graded quite well anyway.

The bigger question is how PSA didn't know it was trimmed. Quite funny when comparing the "SGC scary needs to be brought up thread". PSA is not consistent nor is it not the best at grading cards. Unfortunately it's like Metallica vs Megadeth (yes I brought it there). While Metallica (PSA) sounds great it really isn't as good as Megadeth (SGC), it's all a popularity contest and total bs.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Unfortunately it's like Metallica vs Megadeth (yes I brought it there). While Metallica (PSA) sounds great it really isn't as good as Megadeth (SGC), it's all a popularity contest and total bs.

Oh HELL Yeah! Finally someone said it. Megadeth is by far the better band (in any form) over Metallica as long as Dave is involved. Absolute top of the food chain, f***ing genius and more metal than anyone past, present or future. Oh, and Lemmy is right there too!

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Oh HELL Yeah! Finally someone said it. Megadeth is by far the better band (in any form) over Metallica as long as Dave is involved. Absolute top of the food chain, f***ing genius and more metal than anyone past, present or future. Oh, and Lemmy is right there too!

Tony you redeemed yourself there. I was about to go crazy if you didn't mention Lemmy/Motorhead. Fav band of all time. Lemmy is god \m/\m/

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Tony you redeemed yourself there. I was about to go crazy if you didn't mention Lemmy/Motorhead. Fav band of all time. Lemmy is god \m/\m/

The great thing about Lemmy is he sounded like he was 60 when he was 30 so you can still listen to him today and sounds the exact same as day 1.

And I too prefer Dave and the boys to James and his crew, but its like Filet Mignon and Prime Rib, either will do nicely. And Lemmy is a side order of a full rack of ribs.

[Rich Klein]

It's the most famous card in the hobby and still presents very well.

And still has the PSA 8 ID

So, even though we know it's trimmed, I would wager that the owner makes a profit when he sells.

I know many of us on this board would prefer to believe that now we know officially the card is trimmed, it is worthless.

Sorry, reality will go in the other direction.

Rich

[pherbener]

I agree!!

Megadeath >>>>>>>>>>>>>Metallica!!

SGC>>>>>>>>>>>PSA

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I think it will increase the value of the card believe it or not. It's a scandal now and the card probably would have graded quite well anyway.

The bigger question is how PSA didn't know it was trimmed. Quite funny when comparing the "SGC scary needs to be brought up thread". PSA is not consistent nor is it not the best at grading cards. Unfortunately it's like Metallica vs Megadeth (yes I brought it there). While Metallica (PSA) sounds great it really isn't as good as Megadeth (SGC), it's all a popularity contest and total bs.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I agree!!

Megadeath >>>>>>>>>>>>>Metallica!!

SGC>>>>>>>>>>>PSA

While I tend to prefer SGC, I shall offer this reply to your post:

Metallica, in the 80's, especially with Cliff > Megadeth > Metallica light (after the Black Album.)

Just my two cents. After all, this is quite subjective.

Best regards,

Eric

[Bpm0014]

Today, wouldn't the PSA 8 Wagner be worth more on an uncut sheet??

[CW]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the Wagner was cut from an uncut sheet. Instead, it was one of those greatly oversized T206s you see with the big borders, and Mastro merely trimmed it down from that form. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

[ullmandds]

personally I'd like to know exactly how the grading of that wagner went down. i'd surmise all the major players were in a room together with some graders(I mean friends) all discussing the merits of the card and if there were a way to detect trim/alteration...prior to slabbing it and creating a hobby changing money making machine all founded on a lie!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

personally I'd like to know exactly how the grading of that wagner went down. i'd surmise all the major players were in a room together with some graders(I mean friends) all discussing the merits of the card and if there were a way to detect trim/alteration...prior to slabbing it and creating a hobby changing money making machine all founded on a lie!

I believe I have read that David Hall and Bill Hughes were there, and there may have been others. But it has been written about.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I believe I have read that David Hall and Bill Hughes were there, and there may have been others. But it has been written about.

I posted back in 2012 about this, as David Hall talked about this at the PSA lunch at the National that year. Here are my posts from that time:

"At the PSA lunch right now - David Hall is 100 percent standing by the PSA 8 grade, and says the only debate was whether to grade it a 7 or 8. He says they will stand by their product but they don't believe the evidence to date."

"Not sure if anything was recorded, but Hall was adamant that he examined te Wagner with a magnifying glass and stood by it, but if anything was proven otherwise and PSA had to compensate a buyer for any reason, that was part of their guarantee."

"Hall said Hughes told him that the quotes in the book and the newspaper articles were outright lies, and Hughes never said he knew the card was trimmed."

[bbcard1]

But what's the Cincinnati Wagner worth today?