Biggest MVP snubs ever

[cgjackson222]

One of the biggest snubs was in '47 when Ted Williams won the triple crown for the 2nd time, and had a WAR of 9.5 but finished 2nd to DiMaggio (who had his 56 game hitting streak) but only a WAR of 4.7.

Not only did Ted win the triple crown (.343, 32 HRs, 114 RBI), but he also led the league in runs (125), walks (162), OBP (a whopping .499), slugging (.634), OPS (1.133), OPS+ (205), total bases (343), while only striking out 47 times.

DiMaggio's slash line was only .315/.391/.522, only 20 HRs and 97 RBI.


Willie Mays got snubbed frequently--one of the more absurd ones was in 1964 when he led the league in HRs (47), slugging (.607), OPS (.990), and OPS+ (172), WAR (11) and won a Gold Glove, and finished in 6th place behind Ken Boyer, Johnny Callison, Bill White, Frank Robinson and Joe Torre.

I realize they didn't look at OPS and WAR back then, but come on, you don't need those stats to realize the greatness of Willie.

Any others that exasperate you?

[G1911]

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

Agreed. I think the Eckersley's win in '92 was particularly troublesome because not only was he not the best player (I think Kirby Puckett who had a 7.1 WAR was), but he wasn't even close to the best pitcher. Roger Clemens was 18-11 with a 2.41 ERA and a 1.074 WHIP and had a WAR of 8.7 compared to Eckersley's 2.9.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Agreed. I think the Eckersley's win in '92 was particularly troublesome because not only was he not the best player (I think Kirby Puckett who had a 7.1 WAR was), but he wasn't even close to the best pitcher. Roger Clemens was 18-11 with a 2.41 ERA and a 1.074 WHIP and had a WAR of 8.7 compared to Eckersley's 2.9.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

A few top WAR seasons for relievers in the last 50 years. Not sure exactly which were closers throwing one inning years....

Goose Gossage 8.2 in 1975, 6.0 in 1977, 4.5 in 1982, 3.5 in 1983, 3.4 in 1980, 3.2 in 1978

Mark Eichorn 7.6 in 1986

Bruce Sutter 6.5 in 1977, 4.9 in 1979, 4.5 in 1984

Dan Quisenberry 5.5 in 1983, 4.2 in 1985, 3.3 in 1982 and 1984

Greg Minton 5.4 in 1982

Mariano Rivera 5.0 in 1996, 4.3 in 2008, 4.2 in 2004, 4.0 in 2005, 3.9 in 2006, 3.7 in 1997, 3.6 in both 2003 and 2009, 3.5 in 1999, 3.4 in 2001

Willie Hernandez 4.8 in 1984 (MVP)

Lee Smith 4.8 in 1983, 3.2 in 1986

Jeff Montgomery 4.6 in 1989, 4.4 in 1993

Keith Foulke 4.5 in 1999, 3.7 in 2001, 3.5 in 2003 and 2004, 3.0 in 2000

Mark Davis 4.4 in 1989, 3.1 in 1988

Bill Caudill 4.4 in 1982

bob James 4.3 in 1985

Rollie Fingers 4.2 in 1981 (MVP), 3.8 in 1976

John Wetteland 4.2 in 1993

Trevor Hoffman 4.1 in 1998, 3.9 in 1996, 3.1 in 1997

Roberto Hernandez 4.1 in 1996

Tom Gordon 4.0 in 2004, 3.0 in 2005

Byung-Hyun Kim 4.0 in 2002, 3.1 in 2001

Mike Marshall 4.0 in 1972, 3.1 in 1974, 3.0 in 1973 and 1978

J.J. Putz 4.0 in 2007

Joe Nathan 3.9 in 2004, 3.3 in 2006 and 2008, 3.2 in 2013, 3.0 in 2009

Jose Mesa 3.9 in 1995

Billy Wagner 3.8 in 1999, and 3.5 in 1990

Dave Righetti 3.8 in 1986, 3.3 in 1984

Jesse Orosco 3.8 in 1983

Brad Lidge 3.8 in 2004

Francisco Rodriguez 3.7 in 2006, 3.3 in 2004

Eric Gagne 3.7 in 2003

Craig Kimbrel 3.6 in 2017, 3.2 in 2012, 3.1 in 2013

Jeff Shaw 3.6 in 1997, 3.3 in 1996

Jeff Brantley 3.6 in 1990

Jeff Reardon 3.5 in 1982

Bobby Thigpen 3.5 in 1990

Tom Henke 3.4 in 1989, 3.3 in 1987, 3.0 in 1990

Armando Benítez 3.4 in 2004, 3.3 in 1999

Robb Nen 3.4 in 1998

Dennis Eckersley 3.3 in 1990, 2.9 in 1992 (MVP)

John Smoltz 3.3 in 2003

Al Holland 3.3 in 1983

Heath Bell 3.3 in 2007

Doug Jones 3.2 in 1988, 3.0 1997

Todd Worrell 3.2 in 1987

Randy Myers 3.1 in 1990 and 1997

Edwin Diaz 3.1 in 2018

So Dennis Eckersly's 2.9 during his MVP season doesn't really standout--it wasn't even his best WAR as relief pitcher.

The highest Mariano ever finished in MVP was 9th (2004 and 2005) and he never won a Cy Young.

[Mike D.]

Thanks Charles. I can see a closer winning Cy Young in a year without a standout starter (although there will almost surely be a starter who compiled more WAR than a reliever), but winning MVP when there are viable candidates does seem a bit odd.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

Gossage put up some insane numbers in the 6 range if I recall

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

There has always been the debate on whether Most Valuable Player meant best player. Sometimes it's easy when the best player is on the most successful team. Either way, it's up to the individual voters definition. It always cranked me when one would say something like they didn't vote for X because "His team didn't make the playoffs", when X had a better year and his team wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs without X.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

Neither one won an MVP, though a reliever who throws over 200 innings I wouldn't have such a problem with as I do guys like Willie Hernandez.

[canjond]

Jeter losing in '06 to Justin Morneau

[Carter08]

Slightly different MVP award but Gary Carter should have won the 1986 WS MVP and it shouldn’t have been particularly close. Hats off to Ray Knight but the Kid was robbed.

[KJA]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

Was just looking at 1984, and I think even the runner-up was even questionable with Hrbek getting second place. Eddie Murray and Mattingly had great seasons in 84 but finished 4th and 5th in the voting.

[tod41]

George Brett should have been a 3 time MVP. He deserved the award in 76 and 85. Munson got it in 76 and Mattingly in 85. Mattingly should have won in 86.

[packs]

Oh yeah.

Mattingly was royally screwed out of his back to back MVPs in 1986 by Roger Clemens. Clemens had a good year, he won 24 games and led the AL in ERA and WHIP, but Mattingly was a beast. Nobody in the league went to bat more than he did in 1986 and he led the league in hits, doubles, slugging, OPS, OPS+ and total bases while hitting 352 with 31 homers and 113 RBI's.

His 1986 season was even better than his 1985 season and he still lost out to Roger Clemens, who was actually outpitched by 2nd place Cy Young vote getter Teddy Higuera (9.4 WAR for Higuera to lead the league vs 8.8 for Clemens).

Higuera finished 15th in the MVP vote despite being the better pitcher and losing the Cy Young too.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Oh yeah.

Mattingly was royally screwed out of his back to back MVPs in 1986 by Roger Clemens. Clemens had a good year, he won 24 games and led the AL in ERA and WHIP, but Mattingly was a beast. Nobody in the league went to bat more than he did in 1986 and he led the league in hits, doubles, slugging, OPS, OPS+ and total bases while hitting 352 with 31 homers and 113 RBI's.

His 1986 season was even better than his 1985 season and he still lost out to Roger Clemens, who was actually outpitched by 2nd place Cy Young vote getter Teddy Higuera (9.4 WAR for Higuera to lead the league vs 8.8 for Clemens).

Higuera finished 15th in the MVP vote despite being the better pitcher and losing the Cy Young too.

If you're using WAR to knock Clemens, Clemens was 2nd in WAR and Mattingly was 5th that year. Doesn't seem like a robbery to me.

[packs]

I used WAR to point out Clemens wasn't the best pitcher in the league but he won not only the Cy Young but also the MVP.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I used WAR to point out Clemens wasn't the best pitcher in the league but he won not only the Cy Young but also the MVP.

See the contradiction? I’d say Clemens was the best pitcher in the league that year. If we treat WAR as the arbiter, as you are here, then Mattingly doesn’t deserve the MVP either and Clemens was a better choice than him. By your standard here Higuera was robbed, not Mattingly who was 5th.

[G1911]

They did not like to do repeat winners in the early days, though Gehrig did end up getting a second. This is a big part of why guys like him and Ruth didn’t win every year. The approach was very different in the early 30’s and I think that should not be forgotten.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

See the contradiction? I’d say Clemens was the best pitcher in the league that year. If we treat WAR as the arbiter, as you are here, then Mattingly doesn’t deserve the MVP either and Clemens was a better choice than him. By your standard here Higuera was robbed, not Mattingly who was 5th.

Uh no. When I compared Higuera to Clemens it was pitcher to pitcher. I don’t believe a pitcher should ever win MVP unless he does something incredible, which I don’t think Clemens did.

It’s also my opinion and I posted what I thought because it’s what I think. It’s not always an invitation for you to give your opinion on my own.

[Shoeless Moe]

Gehrig not getting it in 1934 has to be the worst ever.

He won the Triple Crown.....and finished 5th in voting!

Maybe he wasn't the nice guy we all thought he was.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...rds_1934.shtml

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Gehrig not getting it in 1934 has to be the worst ever.

He won the Triple Crown.....and finished 5th in voting!

Maybe he wasn't the nice guy we all thought he was.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...rds_1934.shtml

Yeah, that's atrocious. I think it's crazy that 3 guys on Detroit finished ahead of him (Cochrane won it, Gehringer, and Schoolboy Rowe), and he didn't even come in first on his own team (Lefty Gomez did). Gehrig slugged an insane .706 and his war was 10.1

I think back in the day, they really favored catchers like Cochrane for MVP. I mean Yogi Berra and Roy Campanella each winning 3? They were great players, but not always the best out there.