Isbell T206 sale on Ebay

[Mountaineer1999]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-White-...-127632-2357-0

Wondering why this Sovereign Isbell sold for $889? Just curious. I'm probably just out of T206 touch these days as it's been awhile.

[Bobbycee]

Most likely because of low pop with the Sov. 150 back. But, card has a few creases & is probably over bid.

[Ronnie73]

That's crazy, I paid $20 for mine 5 years ago.

[toledo_mudhen]

Per PSA

Piedmont (52+%) and Sweet Caporal (27+%) backs account for approx 80% of all graded T206s

Sovereign Backs account for approx 4% of all graded examples

[swarmee]

Looks like a Poor or Fair, but solid eye appeal from a distance.

Maybe something about the blue print defect next to belt loop?

[wolf441]

Is the back apple green? I thought that only the 350 series had apple green variations? I thought that the 150 and 350/460 only came in forest green.

[Paulcurlee1]

Isbell was a pretty significant upgrade to my sox maximum back set and the last one I really wanted. Given that it’s one of the hardest sovereign (if not hardest) - I didn’t mind overpaying. I set my max high enough that I felt comfortable that I would get it - as usual - someone bid $879 at the last second and I got it at $889. I have pictures of my sox maximum back set on IG (PaulCurlee) and Facebook (I’m sure you can guess my Facebook user ID). Why someone else wanted to pay $879 for it is your guess, I definitely overpaid but it ain’t going anywhere until I’m dead

[Bpm0014]

You’re gonna tell me this card went from $450 to $879 in the last couple of seconds?? A random $879 which just happened to be slightly less than your $889?? It’s almost like this was shilled by eBay…

[Paulcurlee1]

I had my limit higher than that. My limit was over 4 figures. I’ve seen some weird stuff in bidding - I’m pretty open about what I’m collecting - not hard to figure out. I had a doc white hindu at goldin that ended up at 4x what last price paid was - I let it go. Less than a week later it showed up on PWCC for $4k. I’m sure someone was trying to overbid it and resale it because it’s rare. For that reason I just set my limit stupid high but I didn’t pop it until 5 seconds left. I had my limit at 450 until the very end. See attached pic

[t206kid]

This is one of the toughest Sov150s. I bid pretty aggressively because would have been an upgrade for me but didn't make the Olympic podium. Market starting to get smart to these types of toughies.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

You’re gonna tell me this card went from $450 to $879 in the last couple of seconds?? A random $879 which just happened to be slightly less than your $889?? It’s almost like this was shilled by eBay…

That's kind of how ebay bidding works. Two nuclear bids at the end cause a crazy high price. It's not like an auction house that goes in 5-10% increments.

[tedzan]

Just a few years ago, I paid $40 for this Isbell as an upgrade in my set. So, what can I get for it on ebay, nowadays ?

It's getting "crazy" out there


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Paulcurlee1]

Well it looks like you me and Ron are the members of the Isbell sov150 club. I just wanted to complete my set and I figured someone else would be lurking out there. I expected $700ish?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

That's kind of how ebay bidding works. Two nuclear bids at the end cause a crazy high price. It's not like an auction house that goes in 5-10% increments.

The logical way to bid on ebay is as much as you are prepared to spend as late as possible, leaving little or no time for anybody to see your bid and raise it.

If you bid with 6 seconds left the only ones who beat you are the ones bidding the same way as you, but higher.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by Paulcurlee1

Well it looks like you me and Ron are the members of the Isbell sov150 club. I just wanted to complete my set and I figured someone else would be lurking out there. I expected $700ish?

Congrats on the get Paul! I think a lot of us expected both the Isbell and Leifield to pull strong numbers and they did….final numbers weren’t as surprising as I think some would feel.

It’s a great collection card to have…..rarely seen in the wild.

Congrats again!

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Paulcurlee1

I had my limit higher than that. My limit was over 4 figures. I’ve seen some weird stuff in bidding - I’m pretty open about what I’m collecting - not hard to figure out. I had a doc white hindu at goldin that ended up at 4x what last price paid was - I let it go. Less than a week later it showed up on PWCC for $4k. I’m sure someone was trying to overbid it and resale it because it’s rare. For that reason I just set my limit stupid high but I didn’t pop it until 5 seconds left. I had my limit at 450 until the very end. See attached pic

This is one of the really great aspects of this board- real collectors being transparent about what we collect, why, and even what we paid. This type of info helps put some of the anomalies in the sales results into context. Just invaluable- thanks for sharing.

[Mountaineer1999]

Interesting read on how this went down. Funny thing ... I would've probably posted it as BIN for $70 or so.

[Paulcurlee1]

You still can

[Fred]

For clarification - is the Sov 150 ranked #25 on back scarcity? I was looking through a box I have with cards in it and found a Sov 150 backed T206 along with a least a dozen or more other T206s with other Sov, AmB, Tolstoi backs. I put them away but I do recall two HOF portraits with Sov 350 backs were in there. I've probably had them in that box for a few decades now.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Fred

For clarification - is the Sov 150 ranked #25 on back scarcity?

I believe they're saying that the specific card (Isbell) is a short print among the Sovereigns, not the overall ranking of Sovereigns is off. Some printed sheets had multiple of the same card, leading to some cards being short-printed.

[Luke]

Congrats Paul, great card!

YOu guys posting that you got an Isbell Sov150 for less than $100 got a great deal. I've owned two or three over the last 10 years and sold them all for $300+

Like Jay said, people are starting to pay up for the toughest combos and the poses that are toughest to find with a mid-tier back.

[HobokenJon]

The PSA pop report shows a total of two Sovereign 150 Frank Isbell cards. The SGC pop report shows a total of five. There are other known copies, both raw and slabbed, including this PSA 2.5 that I bought two years ago from David Hall's collection at Heritage: https://bit.ly/34ZeCeh But suffice it to say, the card is extremely rare. It's likely the rarest of all Sovereign 150 backs, and one of the rarest of all Sovereign backs. The published back-scarcity rankings don't matter much when it comes to this card.

[Ronnie73]

So I'm assuming there are other Sovereign 150's that fall into a similar category. Because PSA and SGC pop total for Isbell is 7 cards, and there are other cards that fall into similar pop totals. But nobody really knows how many raw cards are out there. But an Old Mill Isbell has a total pop of only 5 cards. Can't imagine where prices would land on that one. I guess if you have the money to spend, then there really is no problem with that final bid. Congrats on getting a card you really wanted.

[Paulcurlee1]

There’s no problem with any bid as long as you can pay it.

[HobokenJon]

To your point, Ron, see this Leifield (throwing) with an Old Mill back here: https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=93451

Total PSA pop is one. Total SGC pop is 2.

There was a Leifield among the Sovereign 150 batch that sold last night. It's one of the scarcest Sovereign 150 cards after Isbell, but the Old Mill version is much scarcer.

[t206kid]

Some other Sov150 gems

[HobokenJon]

Also, FWIW, since you mentioned Isbell with an Old Mill back, the last known sale I'm aware of was in December 2018 on eBay. A PSA 3 copy sold for $800. The original BIN asking price was $1,200. (The seller was toppsaholic.) It would be fun to see what folks on the board think it would go for now. But I also can state with confidence that it isn't for sale.

[brianp-beme]

I don't have the Sovereign 150, but I do have the Sovereign 350 of Leifield. Being that 350 is a much higher number than 150, I figure my Leifield is likely worth 2.33 times as much as the Sovereign 150.

Brian (basic math was a strong point for me in school)

[tedzan]

Frank Isbell retired from MLB Oct 3, 1909. So, that explains why his pop report numbers are low. American Lithograph most likely stopped issuing his
cards earlier than the other 150 Series guys.

Lefty Leifield pitched for Pittsburgh till May 1912, so I have no explanation for why his SOVEREIGN 150 cards are tougher to find.

Whatever, if these extravagant prices continue for T206 SOVEREIGN cards, I may be tempted to sell my entire SOVEREIGN complete set of 408 cards.

It would be one of the best investments that I have ever made in Sportscards.





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by HobokenJon

Also, FWIW, since you mentioned Isbell with an Old Mill back, the last known sale I'm aware of was in December 2018 on eBay. A PSA 3 copy sold for $800. The original BIN asking price was $1,200. (The seller was toppsaholic.) It would be fun to see what folks on the board think it would go for now. But I also can state with confidence that it isn't for sale.

Wow. Higher prices than I would have thought but some nice cards with some rarity and eye appeal

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by HobokenJon

Also, FWIW, since you mentioned Isbell with an Old Mill back, the last known sale I'm aware of was in December 2018 on eBay. A PSA 3 copy sold for $800. The original BIN asking price was $1,200. (The seller was toppsaholic.) It would be fun to see what folks on the board think it would go for now. But I also can state with confidence that it isn't for sale.

It's interesting that you brought up toppsaholic. Many people don't like them for certain reasons but I personally never had an issue with them. Sometimes they's reach out for advice on some pricing and other times they would contact me with new T206 purchases of theirs before listing them on ebay. I've actually bought some really nice very low population cards from them at fair prices. Especially Tolstoi's and Print Group One Old Mill's.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Whatever, if these extravagant prices continue for T206 SOVEREIGN cards, I may be tempted to sell my entire SOVEREIGN complete set of 408 cards.

It would be one of the best investments that I have ever made in Sportscards.

TED Z

T206 Reference
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Hi Ted, I play around with the idea of selling all my T206's at times. I have plenty of interest for many of my cards, and since 95 percent of them are non Piedmont/Sweet Caporal cards, there would be a buyer for every card. Honestly, the biggest issue is how to price them lately. If it's an auction, then it finds it's current value on it's own. But if you wanted to list a few a week with buy it now prices on Net54 or Tobacco Row on Facebook, the market is so unpredictable, and you'd want to try and get top dollar for the cards you would be selling. Auction houses would not be the greatest idea, just because of the fee's related. Plus I wouldn't want all my cards listed at once. I'd get more money selling gradually over time and I have the free time needed to scan, list, email, and send out the cards. But after thinking about it each time, I just keep adding to the set. I don't really need the money. It would buy some really nice things, but it wouldn't increase my happiness.

If I had your 408 card Sovereign group, I'd probably work on filling in the spaces, like the 350 Subject cards your missing, that you currently have the 150 Subjects of. Same thing for 460's you have and the 350's of the same card that you don't have. Excluding the Super Six, because if I remember correctly, you have the 350's and the 460's of those.

[Pat R]

The low pops don't have anything to do with when a player retired, Isbell for example was printed with a Sovereign 350 so they didn't stop issuing his cards
after he retired.

[Tom S.]

Originally Posted by Paulcurlee1

Isbell was a pretty significant upgrade to my sox maximum back set and the last one I really wanted. Given that it’s one of the hardest sovereign (if not hardest) - I didn’t mind overpaying. I set my max high enough that I felt comfortable that I would get it - as usual - someone bid $879 at the last second and I got it at $889. I have pictures of my sox maximum back set on IG (PaulCurlee) and Facebook (I’m sure you can guess my Facebook user ID). Why someone else wanted to pay $879 for it is your guess, I definitely overpaid but it ain’t going anywhere until I’m dead

Paul, congrats on the pickup! I'm working on a White Sox master T206 set too and was looking at that card to upgrade the PSA1 that I got last July. I let it go after the bidding got to be more than I was comfortable with paying.

I would be interested in seeing your set, but I'm probably one of the few people left in the world that isn't on Instagram or Facebook.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Hi Ted, I play around with the idea of selling all my T206's at times. I have plenty of interest for many of my cards, and since 95 percent of them are non Piedmont/Sweet Caporal cards, there would be a buyer for every card. Honestly, the biggest issue is how to price them lately. If it's an auction, then it finds it's current value on it's own. But if you wanted to list a few a week with buy it now prices on Net54 or Tobacco Row on Facebook, the market is so unpredictable, and you'd want to try and get top dollar for the cards you would be selling. Auction houses would not be the greatest idea, just because of the fee's related. Plus I wouldn't want all my cards listed at once. I'd get more money selling gradually over time and I have the free time needed to scan, list, email, and send out the cards. But after thinking about it each time, I just keep adding to the set. I don't really need the money. It would buy some really nice things, but it wouldn't increase my happiness.

If I had your 408 card Sovereign group, I'd probably work on filling in the spaces, like the 350 Subject cards your missing, that you currently have the 150 Subjects of. Same thing for 460's you have and the 350's of the same card that you don't have. Excluding the Super Six, because if I remember correctly, you have the 350's and the 460's of those.

Hi Ronnie

It's amazing how you and I think alike. I have considered selling a lot of my stuff, but I enjoy this hobby too much to get serious about selling these little cardboard gems.
Besides, my Grandson Ron loves this stuff as much as I do, and he eventually will inherit most of it. I have already given him my 1952 TOPPS master set (his favorite set).

Speaking about master sets.....the All - SOVEREIGN set is totally complete with 476 cards, when you include the 350 backs of the 150 Series cards. I've chose to limit my
set to the 402 basic subjects, plus the rare 460 versions of the Six Super Prints (on display here)......


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Take care my good friend.

TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Fred]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I believe they're saying that the specific card (Isbell) is a short print among the Sovereigns, not the overall ranking of Sovereigns is off. Some printed sheets had multiple of the same card, leading to some cards being short-printed.

John, thank you for the explanation. It makes sense. I should probably try to read the T206 thread Ted started. It seems fairly comprehensive. I've collected T206s for years but most have been traded/sold, but I still have some and enjoy them.

[bb206]

This is a fascinating thread, quite the educational read on Sov 150’s.

I did notice that the Hobe Ferris (combined Pop 8) and Fielder Jones Hands on Hips (combined Pop 7) both sold for considerably less money in the same selling frenzy. Curious if that points to specific demand for the Isbell/Leifield, or those other cards sold closer to market value. Or perhaps, many ungraded copies of the others are known to exist?

[Paulcurlee1]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Paul, congrats on the pickup! I'm working on a White Sox master T206 set too and was looking at that card to upgrade the PSA1 that I got last July. I let it go after the bidding got to be more than I was comfortable with paying.

I would be interested in seeing your set, but I'm probably one of the few people left in the world that isn't on Instagram or Facebook.

Hey Tom - shot you a DM with my number. Checked out your WS collection, absolutely awesome! If you’re local to Chicago, let me know. I live in the Pilsen neighborhood

[53toppscollector]

A bunch of Sov150s sold the other night, I had the portraits on the watch list and bid on 3 of them, a Donovan, Devlin and Beaumont. The Beaumont and Donovan were like $75 with 10 seconds left, then the bidding spiked and they both finished at close to $400. I somehow got the Devlin for $85. Which I consider a huge steal.

[z28jd]

Isbell didn't retire then, that was just his last MLB game. He bought full stake in a minor league team from Wichita in mid-December of 1909 and then asked for his release from Chicago, which happened a week later. To maximize his profits, he managed and played first base for the team too.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Frank Isbell retired from MLB Oct 3, 1909. So, that explains why his pop report numbers are low. American Lithograph most likely stopped issuing his
cards earlier than the other 150 Series guys.

Lefty Leifield pitched for Pittsburgh till May 1912, so I have no explanation for why his SOVEREIGN 150 cards are tougher to find.

Whatever, if these extravagant prices continue for T206 SOVEREIGN cards, I may be tempted to sell my entire SOVEREIGN complete set of 408 cards.

It would be one of the best investments that I have ever made in Sportscards.





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Pat R]

I'm always surprised when veteran T206 collectors compare the printing and distribution of them to sets like Topps, Bowman, Goudey, Leaf etc...
Unlike those sets they were an advertising premium whose main purpose was to sell more cigarettes. There are a significant number of players in the set
that were retired or are represented on teams they weren't playing for at the time of distribution.

[tedzan]

Back in 2006 - 2007, I think I was the first guy on this forum to have completed an (all) SOVEREIGN set of 408 subjects.
My set includes the Six Super-Prints with their rare SOVEREIGN 460 backs (the toughest of the 6 which is this red Cobb).
And, 44 more cards in the 150/350 Series (with SOVEREIGN 350 backs) in order to complete a Master set (476 cards).

Since then, I know of two other T206 collectors who have achieved this accomplishment in recent years.

So now, this SOVEREIGN Isbell card sells for an unprecedented " $889 ".....WOW !

Then can you imagine what I can get, if I consign this rare Cobb to an Auction sale (REA, ebay, etc.) ? ?

It's mind-boggling


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Paulcurlee1]

You can at least get $879 for an Isbell Sovereign 150, that’s what the underbid was. Hope that assists with pricing.

[pow323]

Ted! I miss the Cobb 460 card I sold you! LOL! Marc

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by pow323

Ted! I miss the Cobb 460 card I sold you! LOL! Marc

Hey Marc

Occasionally, I like to post it......Leon says we should display a BB card with our posts, and what Leon suggests is fine with me

This SOVEREIGN 460 Cobb is my favorite in my set....it's not going anywhere.

Take care my friend.

TED Z

T206 Reference
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[RCFire82]

Just an observation I wanted to share.

[parkerj33]

yep, that was mine....pretty rough back by the way....

[nineunder71]

The link from the OP is gone for me, what did the one in January look like?

Lots of folks chasing Sov150s these days, happy to have this SGC1