eBay Seller Return Scam

[Kleepernop]

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.

Er.ic Kro.ger

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[MikeGarcia]

..Hello ; if this all happened via the United States Postal Service and if the item crossed state lines and if the amount of money was above a certain threshold then there are several interested parties. More than just E-Bay and PayPal and your linked Credit Card. Do you have his home address ? That would be a good start.

..

[Kleepernop]

Thanks for the response, as yes it did cross State lines and I have his home address.


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[Seven]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.


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If you haven't gotten your money back, get in contact with your credit card company.

[Kleepernop]

Thanks. This was just a PayPal balance transaction, no Credit Card company. Sounds like a call to PayPal is in order.


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[Shoeless Moe]

You need to post the Seller's Ebay ID if you want others to avoid the same situation you are going through.

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

You need to post the Seller's Ebay ID if you want others to avoid the same situation you are going through.

Ok I doubt you’ll see more listings from him but it’s micolve99.


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[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Ok I doubt you’ll see more listings from him but it’s micolve99.


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That ID doesn't come up in an eBay search.

[bobbyw8469]

Came up for me. Feedback of ONE. THat should have been a huge red flag right there.

[bobbyw8469]

The one feedback was left by the OP. I really don't mean no disrespect, and I am not trying to pour salt on the wound, but doesn't an auction of a raw Babe Ruth Goudey from a zero feedback seller not raise any red flags?????

[bobbyw8469]

"1933 goudey babe ruth 53. Condition is Like New. Shipped with USPS First Class Package. The card was scanned on both sides ...very very beautiful condition and not a reprint...if you think its a reprint then its your loss honesty, with that said please mentioned my name as the founder of this card when you get it graded and asked were did you find this card is all i ask from the buyer...the edge's are flat on close exams with a mocrofineglass on all sides but top back and left back of the edge is light chips due to cutting from when it was manufactured and printed back in 1933 before distribution but flat perfect condition all around and sharp corners all around, Never Tampered with what so ever as you can see from the scan .i dont want to sell but i know i need to pass it on to someone that will have it graded to show the world how beautiful this card has been taken care of. I can say this for the owner of this very card..( PLEASE PLEASE TAKE THIS CARD AND NEVER LET IT OUT YOUR SIGHTS) I WISH I COULD AFFORD TO HAVE IT GRADED BUT GOD'S PLANS FOR ME AIN'T UPPER CLASS IN MY DAY'S.. MAYBE ON MY NEXT TIME IN LIFE I WILL BUT FOR NOW, THIS IS ALL I HAVE TO SHOW FOR. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO CHECK OUT MY PAGE PEOPLE...AND ..GOD BLESS!! Took a few more pictures even of its thickness and the ink bleeding through the back , you can see clearly red ink and babe ruths blue hat ink bleeding through the back also the yellow part does not line up to the red lower level just as all the originals do...magnifier revealed beautiful dotted ink colors...truly beautiful"

That was the auction description. It practically SCREAMS scam!!!!

[Kleepernop]

If it’s advertised as original, then no. I’ll risk a return, and I’ve had great transactions with low feedback scores before. I didn’t envision this scam though...


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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

If it’s advertised as original, then no. I’ll risk a return, and I’ve had great transactions with low feedback scores before. I didn’t envision this scam though...


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It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

Thanks. I’ve seen a lot worse red flags, and had successful transactions with more red flags. I’ve also got my money back every time it doesn’t work out.

Did you have any insights on my original question?


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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Came up for me. Feedback of ONE. THat should have been a huge red flag right there.

Seller's ID didn't come up for me either. Can you post a link to the item? Thx!

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.


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Filing a police report is pointless, police work on evidence and you have none. Its your word against his. I'm sure Ebay will rule in your favor. If they don't, file a PayPal claim.

[teza11]

Ouch. Quite a leap of faith on a very expensive card. Agree regarding the red flags. I also suspect shill bidding for y***z. Apparently at least 9 other bidders thought the card looked good enough.

Jeff

https://www.ebay.com/usr/micolve99?_...p2047675.l2559

[sportscardpete]

Paypal should be helpful in the event eBay doesn't side with you, though eBay would be foolish not side with you given the information provided.

As for buying a fake - it happens. There are a lot of fakes on eBay. Even the best get burned when buying an ungraded card. What payment type did you use with paypal? If it is linked to a CC you can have the CC company help out too. You will have a lot of defenses.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

Guy is looking for help not your chastising.

[RL]

make sure you file a mail fraud report with the usps

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Guy is looking for help not your chastising.

Not trying to chastize him. He should have never allowed himself to get into this situation to begin with however. The words of PT Barnum ring true.

[bobbyw8469]

As for how to handle the fraud. Contact the police department. File a police report. Contact the postal inspector. Contact the credit card company.

[jayshum]

I have not collected the 1933 Goudey set, but I have thought about starting it at times. Can someone please tell me how you can tell the card is a fake? Is there something obvious in the pictures that I should look for with other 1933 Goudeys if I do start collecting the set or is it only evident when the card is in hand?

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I have not collected the 1933 Goudey set, but I have thought about starting it at times. Can someone please tell me how you can tell the card is a fake? Is there something obvious in the pictures that I should look for with other 1933 Goudeys if I do start collecting the set or is it only evident when the card is in hand?

I would make sure it is graded by SGC, PSA or BVG. If it isn't it is highly suspect. Not all raw cards are fake but hard to tell over internet.

Also:

https://bbcemporium.com/index.php?st...tep2=babe_ruth

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

the hi-res images just look all wrong from a print quality standpoint. Frankly I'm shocked the seller provided them. The lo-res images are pretty nice looking.

[samosa4u]

I agree a hundred percent with Robert here. Like seriously, what the hell was the OP thinking? We're talking about a seller here with zero feedback and who has five dollar basketball cards listed for sale. On top of that, it took me half a second to realize this Ruth is fake, and guess what? I've never even owned one before! Oh, and the description made me laugh as well.

I WISH I COULD AFFORD TO HAVE IT GRADED BUT GOD'S PLANS FOR ME AIN'T UPPER CLASS IN MY DAY'S.

Wow! That is so ghetto, man! If you fall for scams like this, then you shouldn't be buying cards.

[Kleepernop]

Thank you to those who provided ideas to help. I’m pursuing those - much appreciated.

For those who decided it was more productive to tell me how stupid I am - from behind the anonymity of your screen name, no less - know that I’ve bought hundreds of ungraded cards on eBay worth well into the 6-figure $ value and haven’t been burned once. I’m willing to take a risk to grow the value of my collection at a rate greater than my investment, and given this one was listed as original, the risk is minimal.

So I’ll do what I do. You do you. Thanks for listening.


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[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I agree a hundred percent with Robert here. Like seriously, what the hell was the OP thinking? We're talking about a seller here with zero feedback and who has five dollar basketball cards listed for sale. On top of that, it took me half a second to realize this Ruth is fake, and guess what? I've never even owned one before! Oh, and the description made me laugh as well.

I WISH I COULD AFFORD TO HAVE IT GRADED BUT GOD'S PLANS FOR ME AIN'T UPPER CLASS IN MY DAY'S.

Wow! That is so ghetto, man! If you fall for scams like this, then you shouldn't be buying cards.

LOL, he even snuck in a "GOD BLESS" in all CAPS at the end.

That's EBAY 101 for being the first sign of a scammer, whether buyer or seller.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

"1933 goudey babe ruth 53. Condition is Like New. Shipped with USPS First Class Package. The card was scanned on both sides ...very very beautiful condition and not a reprint...if you think its a reprint then its your loss honesty, with that said please mentioned my name as the founder of this card when you get it graded and asked were did you find this card is all i ask from the buyer...the edge's are flat on close exams with a mocrofineglass on all sides but top back and left back of the edge is light chips due to cutting from when it was manufactured and printed back in 1933 before distribution but flat perfect condition all around and sharp corners all around, Never Tampered with what so ever as you can see from the scan .i dont want to sell but i know i need to pass it on to someone that will have it graded to show the world how beautiful this card has been taken care of. I can say this for the owner of this very card..( PLEASE PLEASE TAKE THIS CARD AND NEVER LET IT OUT YOUR SIGHTS) I WISH I COULD AFFORD TO HAVE IT GRADED BUT GOD'S PLANS FOR ME AIN'T UPPER CLASS IN MY DAY'S.. MAYBE ON MY NEXT TIME IN LIFE I WILL BUT FOR NOW, THIS IS ALL I HAVE TO SHOW FOR. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO CHECK OUT MY PAGE PEOPLE...AND ..GOD BLESS!! Took a few more pictures even of its thickness and the ink bleeding through the back , you can see clearly red ink and babe ruths blue hat ink bleeding through the back also the yellow part does not line up to the red lower level just as all the originals do...magnifier revealed beautiful dotted ink colors...truly beautiful"

That was the auction description. It practically SCREAMS scam!!!!

I couldn't even make my way all the way through the description. That is bad. I hope the OP gets his money back and has learned a lesson.

[Directly]

I would suggest in the future use your credit card to pay on larger purchases,

Two reasons your credit card will help if there is a issue and sometimes your credit card may receive cash rewards.

Just yesterday on Ebay their was a huge lot of graded prewar cards worth in the excess of $150,000 plus --asking 15,000? BIN--tempting to say the least, may be some one here noticed the listing!!
Zero feedback-yep too good to be true-the sold listing has since been removed and the user now not registered.

I believe if Paypal gets involved in a dispute Ebay will let them handle the case?

In either event I'm am sure you will be protected!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Thank you to those who provided ideas to help. I’m pursuing those - much appreciated.

For those who decided it was more productive to tell me how stupid I am - from behind the anonymity of your screen name, no less - know that I’ve bought hundreds of ungraded cards on eBay worth well into the 6-figure $ value and haven’t been burned once. I’m willing to take a risk to grow the value of my collection at a rate greater than my investment, and given this one was listed as original, the risk is minimal.

So I’ll do what I do. You do you. Thanks for listening.


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I've refrained from kicking a guy when he's down. But you say you're willing to take a risk. But then when you get burned you, understandably, want to be made whole. So you DIDN'T want to take a risk, you wanted a gamble with house money. This outcome is the result of actual risk taking. Hopefully the other times it has worked out covers this time where it didn't. That's what taking a risk means.

That being said I don't want a scammer rewarded, but honestly you aren't looking to take risks. Hopefully you haven't this time either.

[perezfan]

Ebay should indeed side with you. I am confident you'll get your refund, even though it may take a few days.

Yes, buying raw cards can be risky unless you know what signs to look for. Hopefully this will serve as a good "learning moment" and a lesson not to rush into deals that look too good to be true. The seller's lack of feedback, questionable scans, overblown description (complete with with pre-built excuses), and references to God are all common red flags of a shady seller.

Once you learn what to avoid, the ability to move on becomes almost "automatic". I have made some of my very best purchases going raw, and a slab is by no means a guarantee of security, either. Thousands of altered, trimmed and recolored cards currently reside in numbered slabs. So hopefully you'll be made whole, and can feel confident going after both raw and graded cards moving forward.

We've all gotten burned at one time or another. And anyone who denies it is lying. The key is to learn from it.

Best of luck with the refund!

[bobbyw8469]

We've all gotten burned at one time or another. And anyone who denies it is lying. The key is to learn from it.

You got that right.

[Jcosta19]

I also think ebay will side with you and wish you luck. Thanks for giving the scammers ID as that can be helpful for us.

I will have to disagree with your objections and definition of anonymity however, since you are the member seeking advice on a forum that you do not contribute to, with absolutely no identifying information in your profile, and the respondents are very long time, contributing board members with their identities unhidden.

Good luck.

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[bobbyw8469]

And maybe I came across the wrong way. I wasn't chastizing him. Was just pointing out that this was an OBVIOUS scam that even the most "wet behind the ears" collector should have spotted. Greed plays funny tricks on people though.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've refrained from kicking a guy when he's down. But you say you're willing to take a risk. But then when you get burned you, understandably, want to be made whole. So you DIDN'T want to take a risk, you wanted a gamble with house money. This outcome is the result of actual risk taking. Hopefully the other times it has worked out covers this time where it didn't. That's what taking a risk means.

That being said I don't want a scammer rewarded, but honestly you aren't looking to take risks. Hopefully you haven't this time either.

Ditto, and another thing that makes it tough to refrain is the claims that he's had countless flawless high $ transactions similar to this one. Which we all know is impossible if you're regularly buying material like a supposedly authentic raw Goudey Ruth from a seller with 1 feedback and a description like that.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by Jcosta19

I also think ebay will side with you and wish you luck. Thanks for giving the scammers ID as that can be helpful for us.

I will have to disagree with your objections and definition of anonymity however, since you are the member seeking advice on a forum that you do not contribute to, with absolutely no identifying information in your profile, and the respondents are very long time, contributing board members with their identities unhidden.

Good luck.

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I do actually see that the OP put his name in the original post actually. Not sure if it was there originally, but I partially retract my comment on anonymity.

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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Ditto, and another thing that makes it tough to refrain is the claims that he's had countless flawless high $ transactions similar to this one. Which we all know is impossible if you're regularly buying material like a supposedly authentic raw Goudey Ruth from a seller with 1 feedback and a description like that.

Zero feedbacks. The one is got was from the OP.

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

LOL, he even snuck in a "GOD BLESS" in all CAPS at the end.

That's EBAY 101 for being the first sign of a scammer, whether buyer or seller.

Run for the hills when you see the “ God Bless”


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[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake.

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

The picture in the toploader was the dead giveaway to me. It looked like it was a photocopy. The image didn't have a "crisp, concise" look that the originals have. In addition to getting scammed for over $4k, I am betting that the OP paid around $250 to get it graded so quickly from PSA. When I got scammed with the fake Satchel Paige rookie, that is what I had to pay to get it graded, and I did NOT get to recoup that.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Filing a police report is pointless, police work on evidence and you have none. Its your word against his. I'm sure Ebay will rule in your favor. If they don't, file a PayPal claim.

Im sure with defunding police they will keep the fighting baseball card fraud unit open

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Not trying to chastize him. He should have never allowed himself to get into this situation to begin with however. The words of PT Barnum ring true.

also the if too good to be true it is words...

a PSA 5 just sold for 18k.....but i will just sell my EX card raw with no feedback.. Also too put that much detail in how the card could be real but yet will just lose 10k on the card selling it raw...

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

Sure. When I received the card, it felt lighter than ‘33 Goudys. Looking at it sideways, the edge was way too white for a 87 year old card. The biggest give away was a slight gloss on the back. Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

My assessment was the same as yours, and I couldn’t tell for sure it was fake until I held it in my hand. As mentioned every time an eBay seller listed a fake card as original, I got my money back. I didn’t dream of this Seller’s scam.


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[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Im sure with defunding police they will keep the fighting baseball card fraud unit open

LOL. I’ll need to hire some Antifa idiots to help.


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[bobbyw8469]

Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

That part doesn't sound funny to me at it. It is very factual. Vintage baseball cards have a unique smell to them.

[Kleepernop]

Let’s try it this way. I’m willing to take a risk that eBay will stand behind me if I buy a fake. They have every time it has happened. Yes, every time. So I’m willing to take a risk with an eBay purchase.

This has nothing to do with the risk of getting scammed. But we all take that, including you, every time we buy a card on eBay! The seller could send do a bait and switch (that has happened to me), or photoshop a card (seen that too). Heck the seller an empty package for gosh sakes, then it’s your word against his.

Look I get it: caveat emptor. But when making an online purchase there is ALWAYS risk.


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[Case12]

If the risk is higher than comfort of loosing, then I ask here first.

I picked up a Chipper Jones signed ball last week for best offer of $6. (That's right, $6). The eBay seller was a flea market dealer and was super nice. If I lost $6, I would let my dog play with it. Turns out it is real and I love it (now, I have two signed chipper balls).

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Sure. When I received the card, it felt lighter than ‘33 Goudys. Looking at it sideways, the edge was way too white for a 87 year old card. The biggest give away was a slight gloss on the back. Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

My assessment was the same as yours, and I couldn’t tell for sure it was fake until I held it in my hand. As mentioned every time an eBay seller listed a fake card as original, I got my money back. I didn’t dream of this Seller’s scam.


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i fsomeone is trying to sell a fake card as real how can you not dream of a scam being likely...i would consider that variable within the realm of possibility and certainly could dream/nightmare that option.

[1952boyntoncollector]

You can buy 100 fake babe ruth repros

dirty them a bit..say you are listing them as reprint because you are not an expert..can also say got them in grandpa basement or from a older church going member etc and no time to submit to PSA because need money now

you will get 10 bucks or so probably...and they probably cost 2 dollars....5x profit not bad