Top Ten

GaryPassamonte · #1 12-15-2019, 06:43 AM

I was looking through some old catalogs and books this morning and picked up a 1980 Sport Americana Baseball Card Price Guide. Included in the guide was a top ten list of cards from the collection of Barry Halper. This got me thinking about what would be today's top ten most valuable baseball cards. To come up with cards that are truly the most valuable, I am asking this question for cards in the lowest grades PSA 1, Sgc 10, or authentic grades. I am asking what cards would be the most valuable regardless of condition. This caveat would exclude post war cards completely, including the 1952 Topps Mantle. which "only" sells for maybe a couple thousand dollars in the lowest grades. Obviously the T206 Wagner would be there, but I'm interested in which other cards would make your list.

seablaster · #2 12-15-2019, 06:49 AM

I'd think a Baltimore News Ruth would make the cut as would the N172 Anson in uniform.

phikappapsi · #3 12-15-2019, 06:53 AM

E90-1 Jackson. T206 plank

Rhotchkiss · #4 12-15-2019, 07:49 AM

I don’t know pre 1900, and I am sure there are many/several. Off the top of my, sitting in the stands at my son’s wrestling match:

T206 wagner
Baltimore news Ruth
M101-5 Ruth (and related)
1915 Red Sox post card (w/ Ruth)
W600 Cobb
T206 Cobb, Cobb back
T206 Plank
T210 Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Matty
1933 Goudey Lajoie

Leon · #5 12-15-2019, 08:49 AM

1893 Just So Cy Young.

x2drich2000 · #6 12-15-2019, 09:17 AM

T206 Doyle
E107 Wagner & Mathewson

And 1 post-war that comes to mind is the 1961 Dice Mantle, a PSA 1 sold for over $100k in REA last year.

CuriousGeorge · #7 12-15-2019, 09:38 AM

As I’m looking at your list and seeing how many I have I keep getting screwed up and then finally I count and there’s 11! Can we remove the Goudey Lajoie since I don’t have that one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t know pre 1900, and I am sure there are many/several. Off the top of my, sitting in the stands at my son’s wrestling match:

T206 wagner
Baltimore news Ruth
M101-5 Ruth (and related)
1915 Red Sox post card (w/ Ruth)
W600 Cobb
T206 Cobb, Cobb back
T206 Plank
T210 Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Matty
1933 Goudey Lajoie

frankbmd · #8 12-15-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

I was looking through some old catalogs and books this morning and picked up a 1980 Sport Americana Baseball Card Price Guide. Included in the guide was a top ten list of cards from the collection of Barry Halper. This got me thinking about what would be today's top ten most valuable baseball cards. To come up with cards that are truly the most valuable, I am asking this question for cards in the lowest grades PSA 1, Sgc 10, or authentic grades. I am asking what cards would be the most valuable regardless of condition. This caveat would exclude post war cards completely, including the 1952 Topps Mantle. which "only" sells for maybe a couple thousand dollars in the lowest grades. Obviously the T206 Wagner would be there, but I'm interested in which other cards would make your list.

Why not post the 1980 list?

RedsFan1941 · #9 12-15-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

As I’m looking at your list and seeing how many I have I keep getting screwed up and then finally I count and there’s 11! Can we remove the Goudey Lajoie since I don’t have that one?

goudey lajoie wouldn’t be in the top ten anyway

CuriousGeorge · #10 12-15-2019, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

goudey lajoie wouldn’t be in the top ten anyway

Please list yours.

ullmandds · #11 12-15-2019, 10:31 AM

The list from back then would differ greatly from the list today if you are basing your list just on values or sold prices. Do a search for the 10 biggest prices baseball cards I’ve ever sold for eliminating duplicates and there is your answer.

If you’re talking top 10 most desirable cards in the hobby that’s a totally different story.

Rhotchkiss · #12 12-15-2019, 10:32 AM

Since I can’t even count to 10, then what credibility is there any list I make?!?! Sure, ditch the 33 Goudey Lajoie, but I like the t206 Doyle (forgot that one). The e107 Matty and Wags are interesting too, as is the e90-1 Jackson. I think if it was top 15, this would be easy. It’s those final 5 in the top 10 that are tough

CuriousGeorge · #13 12-15-2019, 10:36 AM

We both have a long way still to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Since I can’t even count to 10, then what credibility is there any list I make?!?! Sure, ditch the 33 Goudey Lajoie, but I like the t206 Doyle (forgot that one). The e107 Matty and Wags are interesting too, as is the e90-1 Jackson. I think if it was top 15, this would be easy. It’s those final 5 in the top 10 that are tough

GaryPassamonte · #14 12-15-2019, 10:45 AM

The top ten list from 1980 in no particular order:
T206 Wagner, Plank, Magie
1951 Topps Current All-Stars Konstanty, Roberts, Stanky
1933 Goudey Lajoie
1952 Topps Mantle
T207 Loudermilk, Miller

Remember, 1980 is pre-grading days.

I would include the Four Base Hits Kelly possibly.

samosa4u · #15 12-15-2019, 10:48 AM

What about the T204 Ramly Walter Johnson? The prices are crazy on that one!

Aquarian Sports Cards · #16 12-15-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

As I’m looking at your list and seeing how many I have I keep getting screwed up and then finally I count and there’s 11! Can we remove the Goudey Lajoie since I don’t have that one?

RedsFan1941 · #17 12-15-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Please list yours.

in no particular order and keeping in mind that condition doesn’t matter

t206 wagner
T206 Doyle
T206 plank
Balt news Ruth
Anson uniform
Cobb/Cobb
M101-4 Ruth
E107 Mathewson
Boston garter jackson
T210 jackson

I am light on 19th century cards. not my area of knowledge. the first 6 or so on the list are no brainers. lots of cards can fill the 7-10 slots. all of them are expensive to ship.

rats60 · #18 12-15-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t know pre 1900, and I am sure there are many/several. Off the top of my, sitting in the stands at my son’s wrestling match:

T206 wagner
Baltimore news Ruth
M101-5 Ruth (and related)
1915 Red Sox post card (w/ Ruth)
W600 Cobb
T206 Cobb, Cobb back
T206 Plank
T210 Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Jackson
1914 Cracker Jack Matty
1933 Goudey Lajoie

The problem is do we count cards that are 1/1 like the Just So Cy Young? The Baltimore News Ruth has 4 copies I believe. If that is on the list, then the t206 Doyle which I believe there are 9-10 Is on the list. What are the populations of the W600 Cobb or the Red Sox PC? Or does the card need a population sufficient enough to be sold on a regular basis?

For example the cheapest sale on a Lajoie the last couple years was 22k for a PSA 2. A PSA 2 mk CJ Jackson sold for 19k. A PSA 1 CJ Matty sold for 14k. So if we take your list, which presents 11 worthy candidates, how would we choose one or two of these 3? Or do we cut the low pop cards to pick cards that are easier to value?

Rhotchkiss · #19 12-15-2019, 11:04 AM

Steve, great questions. If we are going pure value, which is what I think the OP asked, I recognize that several on my list will fall away for very rare examples (as you point out). And actually, value should be easy with a little research. I just rattled off what I think are the 11 (bc I cant count) most iconic cards from 1900-1933, many of which will also be most valuable, but some of which will not. As Pete points out, the list for iconic is likely fairly different from most expensive/valuable.

oldjudge · #20 12-15-2019, 11:07 AM

T206 Wagner
Baltimore News Ruth
Anson in Uniform
Just So Young
1869 Cincinnati Peck and Snyder TRADE CARD (not more common CdV)
Cobb with Cobb back
1860 Brooklyn Atlantic's CdV
Cobb W600
Ruth M101-5 Ad back (blank backs less valuable)
T210 Jackson

All of the above should exceed $100,000 with a number grade. The Buttercream Ruth and Doyle NY could fit also.

rats60 · #21 12-15-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

in no particular order and keeping in mind that condition doesn’t matter

t206 wagner
T206 Doyle
T206 plank
Balt news Ruth
Anson uniform
Cobb/Cobb
M101-4 Ruth
E107 Mathewson
Boston garter jackson
T210 jackson

I am light on 19th century cards. not my area of knowledge. the first 6 or so on the list are no brainers. lots of cards can fill the 7-10 slots. all of them are expensive to ship.

The E107 Wagner would be somewhere on the list. It is more valuable than a Plank. I would agree the Plank should be on the list. Not sure what value you are putting on the last 2. Again you have 2 pop ~ 100 cards, a pop 50-60 card and then I believe the rest are 10 or less, so it makes it tough to compare.

oldjudge · #22 12-15-2019, 11:17 AM

If the card wouldn't sell for over $100,000 as a PSA1 it should not be on the list. This eliminates the Plank.

Baseball Rarities · #23 12-15-2019, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

The problem is do we count cards that are 1/1 like the Just So Cy Young? The Baltimore News Ruth has 4 copies I believe. If that is on the list, then the t206 Doyle which I believe there are 9-10 Is on the list. What are the populations of the W600 Cobb or the Red Sox PC? Or does the card need a population sufficient enough to be sold on a regular basis.

There are 10 or 11 Baltimore News Ruth cards. I know of 6 W600 Cobbs. I would guess that there are 15 or so 1915 Red Sox postcards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

If the card wouldn't sell for over $100,000 as a PSA1 it should not be on the list. This eliminates the Plank.

Jay - Do you think that a P&S Trade Card would sell for $100K in a 1? Also, I do not think that most M101-5/4 Ruth cards in a 1 would sell for $100K.

JackW · #24 12-15-2019, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

If the card wouldn't sell for over $100,000 as a PSA1 it should not be on the list. This eliminates the Plank.

Valid point.

oldjudge · #25 12-15-2019, 12:58 PM

The question was what are the ten most valuable cards, not most valuable cards with ten or more copies. The Just So Young absolutely belongs on the list even though it is currently unique, and the T206 Plank absolutely does not. Supply does not solely determine value. There are plenty of unique cards that don’t carry a six figure price tag.

CuriousGeorge · #26 12-15-2019, 01:00 PM

Incredible list Jay! A lot of very tough ones there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

T206 Wagner
Baltimore News Ruth
Anson in Uniform
Just So Young
1869 Cincinnati Peck and Snyder TRADE CARD (not more common CdV)
Cobb with Cobb back
1860 Brooklyn Atlantic's CdV
Cobb W600
Ruth M101-5 Ad back (blank backs less valuable)
T210 Jackson

All of the above should exceed $100,000 with a number grade. The Buttercream Ruth and Doyle NY could fit also.

oldjudge · #27 12-15-2019, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Incredible list Jay! A lot of very toughr ones there.

LOL, I wish that was my card inventory. The interesting thing is that no one collector owns every card on the list. In fact, I believe every collector is missing at least two of the ten cards.

Baseball Rarities · #28 12-15-2019, 01:08 PM

Here is my list. This is assuming that we are not including CDVs and Cabinets that were produced by private studios.

Also, if we are omitting unique cards, then I would switch the 1893 Just So Young with a 1903 E107 Wagner.

1887 N172 Anson In Uniform
1893 Just So Young
1903 E107 Mathewson
1907 W600 Cobb
1909 T206 Doyle NY NL
1909 T206 Wagner
1909-11 T206 Cobb with Cobb Back
1910 T210 Jackson
1914 Baltimore News Ruth
1916 M101-5/4 Ruth

CuriousGeorge · #29 12-15-2019, 01:18 PM

I am missing more but definitely something to work towards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

LOL, I wish that was my card inventory. The interesting thing is that no one collector owns every card on the list. In fact, I believe every collector is missing at least two of the ten cards.

rats60 · #30 12-15-2019, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The question was what are the ten most valuable cards, not most valuable cards with ten or more copies. The Just So Young absolutely belongs on the list even though it is currently unique, and the T206 Plank absolutely does not. Supply does not solely determine value. There are plenty of unique cards that don’t carry a six figure price tag.

Sure, but the t206 Doyle absolutely would. It is more valuable than Cobb/Cobb or t210 Jackson and probably several others on your list.

oldjudge · #31 12-15-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Here is my list. This is assuming that we are not including CDVs and Cabinets that were produced by private studios.

Also, if we are omitting unique cards, then I would switch the 1893 Just So Young with a 1903 E107 Wagner.

1887 N172 Anson In Uniform
1893 Just So Young
1903 E107 Mathewson
1907 W600 Cobb
1909 T206 Doyle NY NL
1909 T206 Wagner
1909-11 T206 Cobb with Cobb Back
1910 T210 Jackson
1914 Baltimore News Ruth
1916 M101-5/4 Ruth

Hi Kevin-The 1860 Atlantic’s CdV has sold twice in the last five years(two different copies), both times for around $200,000. I don’t think the E107 Mathewson would go for that much. Otherwise, I like your list.
Steven-Good luck on your quest.

Baseball Rarities · #32 12-15-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi Kevin-The 1860 Atlantic’s CdV has sold twice in the last five years(two different copies), both times for around $200,000. I don’t think the E107 Mathewson would go for that much. Otherwise, I like your list.

Totally agree on the 1860 Atlantics CDV, but I left off CDVs and Cabinets produced that were produced and distributed by private studios. The two known 1891 Ryder Cabinets of Young have each sold for more than $100K in the last couple of years.

oldjudge · #33 12-15-2019, 01:45 PM

Oh, there are plenty of cards that have sold for over $100,000 that are not on the list, starting with quite a few California League Old Judges. They just have not approached the $200,000 mark. The Ryder Young has not approached that level either.

x2drich2000 · #34 12-15-2019, 01:45 PM

Not saying it should be on the list, but how far off do you think the W600 Wagner street clothes would be?

CuriousGeorge · #35 12-15-2019, 01:48 PM

On that cue Jay....

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi Kevin-The 1860 Atlantic’s CdV has sold twice in the last five years(two different copies), both times for around $200,000. I don’t think the E107 Mathewson would go for that much. Otherwise, I like your list.
Steven-Good luck on your quest.

oldjudge · #36 12-15-2019, 01:52 PM

Steven-I love that CdV. It is a very important card and I believe very undervalued.

rats60 · #37 12-15-2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Here is my list. This is assuming that we are not including CDVs and Cabinets that were produced by private studios.

Also, if we are omitting unique cards, then I would switch the 1893 Just So Young with a 1903 E107 Wagner.

1887 N172 Anson In Uniform
1893 Just So Young
1903 E107 Mathewson
1907 W600 Cobb
1909 T206 Doyle NY NL
1909 T206 Wagner
1909-11 T206 Cobb with Cobb Back
1910 T210 Jackson
1914 Baltimore News Ruth
1916 M101-5/4 Ruth

I believe the E107 Wagner is more than the E107 Mathewson. A SGC 1 Matty sold for 36k this year. A SGC A Wagner sold for 57k in 2016. I don't think you could find a Wagner for 36k today.

benjulmag · #38 12-15-2019, 01:54 PM

Three nobody has mentioned,

P&S Creighton
Four Base Hits Kelly
1863 Grand Match at Hoboken Harry Wright

All three of these IMO should be on any list.

CuriousGeorge · #39 12-15-2019, 01:55 PM

I thought so too. I was kind of surprised it didn’t sell for more but I kind of chalked it up to being a little off the beaten path so perhaps less overall interest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Steven-I love that CdV. It is a very important card and I believe very undervalued.

CuriousGeorge · #40 12-15-2019, 01:56 PM

I agree rats

robertsmithnocure · #41 12-15-2019, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

On that cue Jay....

Great cards Steven. The condition of that 1860 Brooklyn Atlantic’s CDV is incredible. If I had an extra $180K laying around, that card would be my pick. I can’t believe that it did not sell for a premium over the low grade Authentic example.

Baseball Rarities · #42 12-15-2019, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I believe the E107 Wagner is more than the E107 Mathewson. A SGC 1 Matty sold for 36k this year. A SGC A Wagner sold for 57k in 2016. I don't think you could find a Wagner for 36k today.

Yeah, you are definitely right. The E107 Wagner is a more expensive card than the Mathewson.

Thinking about it now, I would probably put Wagner's W600 Type 1 in Street Clothes on the list and omit the E107s.

CuriousGeorge · #43 12-15-2019, 02:10 PM

30 years working 7 days/week made it happen for me. Not sure this CDV made it worth it though lol!

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Great cards Steven. The condition of that 1860 Brooklyn Atlantic’s CDV is incredible. If I had an extra $180K laying around, that card would be my pick. I can’t believe that it did not sell for a premium over the low grade Authentic example.

oldjudge · #44 12-15-2019, 02:10 PM

Corey-I thought of adding the Creighton, but I didn’t know when it was issued (just after Creighton’s death or years later) so I did not include it. The Four Base Hits Kelly is a possibility. I don’t think the Grand Match ticket of Wright is worth enough to fall on the list. When it was listed in REA a few years ago it could not get an opening bid and was eventually pulled. I think it is a $50-$100,000 card which falls short in value. Two other possibilities are the Wright and Spalding Mort Rogers scorecards, but again they fall slightly short. Two other possibilities are the unique Ewing Kalamazoo Bat or the unique Ewing portrait N173. There is also the Peggy Popcorn Ruth.

CuriousGeorge · #45 12-15-2019, 02:10 PM

I don’t have the energy to post mine!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Yeah, you are definitely right. The E107 Wagner is a more expensive card than the Mathewson.

Thinking about it now, I would probably put Wagner's W600 Type 1 in Street Clothes on the list and omit the E107s.

oldjudge · #46 12-15-2019, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

30 years working 7 days/week made it happen for me. Not sure this CDV made it worth it though lol!

The lower grade Atlantic’s example had great provenance coming from a player’s family. That is why it traded for a premium.

oldjudge · #47 12-15-2019, 02:13 PM

Go back to the original question, the list is based on value of the lowest grade example. Neither the E107 Wagner nor the W600 Wagner make the list according to the OP’s criteria.

Baseball Rarities · #48 12-15-2019, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Go back to the original question, the list is based on value of the lowest grade example. Neither the E107 Wagner nor the W600 Wagner make the list according to the OP’s criteria.

When is the last time a low grade W600 Wagner Type 1 sold? A couple of very nice looking mid grade ones sold for $168K and $180K respectively recently and a nicer Type 2 sold for $264K.

oldjudge · #49 12-15-2019, 02:23 PM

So it sounds like the value is about $170,000 which would be a just miss. I do think the E107 Matty, Wagner and Young are great cards. However, they also aren’t quite valuable enough to make the list.

robertsmithnocure · #50 12-15-2019, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Three nobody has mentioned,

P&S Creighton
Four Base Hits Kelly
1863 Grand Match at Hoboken Harry Wright

All three of these IMO should be on any list.

Those are all great cards too. Is the Creighton a Peck and Snyder? I am not very familiar with the card, but the book that I have by Mark Rucker says that the photographer is unknown.