T206 / Old Judge pack question

[cozmokramer]

I know there are a bunch of GAI packs that are labeled T206, or 1909-11, or 1909-19...

Are there any ENCAPSULATED packs floating around or that someone has pictures of that are labeled from the Old Judge era/series?

[Leon]

I believe I have seen one or a few encapsulated but am not positive. If there are any they will definitely be rare, especially if unopened.

[felada]

I believe there is a graded OJ floating around with the pulled from pack designation on the flip

[Joe_G.]

I save digital copies of most Goodwin & Co. packs that come to auction / for sale. This was from an April 2004 Mile High auction. Tax stamp on this pack was from September 1887.

[Jeffrompa]

I guess we would all love to check that pack out a little closer .

[oldjudge]

To find an unopened pack is pretty rare. Leon is right, Alan Rosen had a pack that was found in the mid-1990s that was unopened. It was opened at a show and had a rare card inside(Alcott-Mansfields). The card was heavily tobacco stained on the back, but SGC unexplainably gave it an SGC96 grade, I believe. The pack contained an N173 redemption list and an Goodwin & Co coupon, in addition to the card.
Opened Old Judge packs are not that scarce. The slabbed one that Joe has posted a picture of was an opened pack.

[jp1216]

SGC POP report shows a 98! with the next highest being a 60.

[cozmokramer]

Thanks everyone, especially Joe for that pic!

I'd love to find one exactly like that to purchase!

[swarmee]

The pack in the picture does say "(EMPTY)", in case you didn't notice.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by jp1216

SGC POP report shows a 98! with the next highest being a 60.

It was a 98 and sold for close to $10,000 I believe, at least that was the asking price. I have a nice Mansfield card, would probably grade close to a 60, if not a grade higher, but I have no plans of grading it. The white marks on the scans aren't on the card, except the the one on the right border(middle) and the back is clean.

[Joe_G.]

Here is a better image of the pack I posted (easier to see "EMPTY").



I'm not aware of any remaining unopened OJ packs that may contain a baseball card (1886-1890).

[cozmokramer]

Joe - is this your pack?

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Joe - is this your pack?

Nope, not sure where this pack now resides and whether it is still encapsulated. I do have a nice empty example in my collection from 1888 (w/ baseball notice stamp on side).

[MW1]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

To find an unopened pack is pretty rare. Leon is right, Alan Rosen had a pack that was found in the mid-1990s that was unopened. It was opened at a show and had a rare card inside(Alcott-Mansfields). The card was heavily tobacco stained on the back, but SGC unexplainably gave it an SGC96 grade, I believe. The pack contained an N173 redemption list and an Goodwin & Co coupon, in addition to the card.
Opened Old Judge packs are not that scarce. The slabbed one that Joe has posted a picture of was an opened pack.

The N172 Alcott was graded a 98 by SGC but it was the old label...before Derek and Lee were the principal graders.

I don't have a scan of the back of the card but I don't recall it being heavily stained. Moderately might be a better word. The corners were pretty sharp. It sold in August of 2002 for $6910. I don't have a record of any sales after that. All things considered, a pretty rare card in that grade.

[cozmokramer]

Yes I'm familiar with that card. So what's your asking price?

[cozmokramer]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Nope, not sure where this pack now resides and whether it is still encapsulated. I do have a nice empty example in my collection from 1888 (w/ baseball notice stamp on side).

Joe, I'm assuming this one is NOT encapsulated I take it.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Yes I'm familiar with that card. So what's your asking price?

I'm not the owner.

[1880nonsports]

Joe
what is a baseball notice stamp?!>?<:?

[Leon]

If I remember correctly that card has one small circular type stain on the back. I don't think you can get a more clear image on a card. It is gorgeous, thanks for posting it MW....

Originally Posted by MW1

The N172 Alcott was graded a 98 by SGC but it was the old label...before Derek and Lee were the principal graders.

I don't have a scan of the back of the card but I don't recall it being heavily stained. Moderately might be a better word. The corners were pretty sharp. It sold in August of 2002 for $6910. I don't have a record of any sales after that. All things considered, a pretty rare card in that grade.

[oldjudge]

The whole back of the card was brown from sitting close to cigarettes for over 100 years. I am very familiar with the card.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The whole back of the card was brown from sitting close to cigarettes for over 100 years. I am very familiar with the card.

Thanks Jay...I must have been thinking about a different card.

[packs]

The designation on that flip has always bothered me. Every N172 was taken from a pack. Seems superfluous.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by packs

The designation on that flip has always bothered me. Every N172 was taken from a pack. Seems superfluous.

It would make more sense in context, as in stating the year in which it was removed.

That having been said, I don't think that makes said card any more valuable. It's just an interesting footnote.

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Joe, I'm assuming this one is NOT encapsulated I take it.

Eric, my pack is empty and not encapsulated.

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

Joe
what is a baseball notice stamp?!>?<:?

Henry, I was pretty careless in my response . It isn't a stamp but instead a label on side of pack as shown below (not mine, this is the pack pictured in the OJ book). I'm only aware of three packs with this label; at least two of them date to 1888, not sure about 3rd. The "baseball notice" likely refers to the cabinet photograph list of players enclosed in the pack (with details on how to redeem said cabinet). May also refer to the "slip" that both the checklist and the many surviving metamorphic trade cards reference but I've yet to see an 1888 "slip/certificate/coupon".

[1880nonsports]

had not seen that. That's a fantastic pack - the base ball reference makes it almost as good as a ghost T206 Seriously though I can only think of one attribution that's more specific to the base ball theme - the strip found on the Yum Yum cans. Kind of pack I'd love to come across within reason as "variations" are becoming difficult for me to justify - but for a pack like that I could give up a couple of mine. I have a small collection of non-sport card packs with strips and such.
That said - a metamorphic would have to fit in the pack. Perhaps it's the "not newspaper" list of players/cabinets? My knowledge relative to Goodwin other than advertising, banners, and albums is at best inadequate. I am ashamedly admitting I only glanced over the OJ book when I first bought it. Please don't be insulted. I have but one OJ BB card and I no longer go to shows so little opportunity to buy/sell them. At the time reading the book fell off my radar and since then I've had other priorities to address. It's silly though for me not to have read it as I'm still quite interested in ALL history related to the 1880's manufacturers - I'll start to tackle it this week all things remaining as they are now.
As an aside Joe - I have located a box with much of my paper non-banner OJ stuff. I will see if I have any coupons left that might be different than yours - and rest assured - your newsboy still safe with me :-)

[1880nonsports]

having the card and pack together along with the proper provenance would elevate the value of the pack above that of a similar opened pack. As for the card - probably not - but likely because of the extraordinary condition of the card. A significantly lesser condition card would benefit the most. There's always someone who wants something a little more special than the other guy and a card actually associated with a pack is about the best one can do to corroborate that inserts were just that.
Of course - getting an N172 AND one that secured a grade and price as it did - was extremely lucky - there were many other scenarios and most often the greatest value is in the unopened pack - one sells the sizzle and not the steak......

[oldjudge]

Henry--Here is an image