Dmitri Young got some PSA love...

[michael3322]

There's been some press about Dmitri Young's PSA 10 rookie collection hitting the auction blocks. I read this in the Yahoo! article:

"In the world of collecting, every collector has their own theme," says Joe Orlando, president of PSA. "If you are talking about baseball rookie cards in the highest quality, no other collection comes close to Dmitri's. The thing that's neat about his collection is that he's assembled not only Hall of Famers, but any noteworthy player in the post-World War II period."

...

"So when Horton's PSA 9 card popped up on eBay for $400, buying it was a no-brainer. Young sent it to PSA three times, asking that they bump it up to a 10. The third time they did."



How often do collectors resubmit a PSA 9 card 3 times and then get a bump to 10?

[D. Bergin]

Cool somebody like Young is also a collector.

LOL about PSA though.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by michael3322

...

"So when Horton's PSA 9 card popped up on eBay for $400, buying it was a no-brainer. Young sent it to PSA three times, asking that they bump it up to a 10. The third time they did."



How often do collectors resubmit a PSA 9 card 3 times and then get a bump to 10?

I guess cards do improve with age!

[yanksfan09]

I did notice the edges on those some of those cards, and the upper corners of the Rose RC were less than perfect.

I think it's great he collects and is very into it though. I'm happy I'm not overly concerned with high grade stuff.

There's just so many great cards to own and I only have so much $ to spend!

[D. Bergin]

Pretty funny. At the end of the article he states his holy grail is a 1981 Topps Fernando Valenzuela PSA 10.

He says most of them come out of the pack looking like "turds". LOL!

[Peter_Spaeth]

The article does not appear to mention that he is selling.

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by michael3322

How often do collectors resubmit a PSA 9 card 3 times and then get a bump to 10?

Probably happens more frequently thank you think. I recall hearing that the Clemente PSA 10 was originally in a 9 holder.

When a bump like that adds tens of thousands (or, in that case, hundreds of thousands) in value to a card, the cost of a review seems like a minimal gamble.

I know a few people who either send the card in for review, or who crack and resubmit. I'd only recommend the cracking route for lower $$ cards, though.

[gnaz01]

YES, got my SCP auction catalog yesterday for the Dimitri cards, powerful stuff in there......

[DJR]

.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by DJR

OT but unimpressed his younger brother....on and off the filed!

Detroit Tigers outfielder Delmon Young arrested:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/detroit...8829--mlb.html

IF that story is true, what a flipping jack@ss. Ive been a Tigers fan for over 30 years and will support my guys but that story paints a bad picture of young. Also, thats digusting that psa would upgrade a 9 to a 10. That end of the spectrum always seemed so much more black and white to me then the 1 to 2 end. What do I know?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by michael3322

"So when Horton's PSA 9 card popped up on eBay for $400, buying it was a no-brainer. Young sent it to PSA three times, asking that they bump it up to a 10. The third time they did."

And you flip buyers wonder why we raw guys find grading so laughable?

If I buy a 3 and sent it in enough times to make it a 4, could I then send it in enough times to make it a 5? Etc?

Doug

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Also, thats digusting that psa would upgrade a 9 to a 10. That end of the spectrum always seemed so much more black and white to me then the 1 to 2 end. What do I know?

9/10 is much more subjective vs a 1 and 2

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

And you flip buyers wonder why we raw guys find grading so laughable?

If I buy a 3 and sent it in enough times to make it a 4, could I then send it in enough times to make it a 5? Etc?
Doug

gross generalization to again bash grading.

[ScottFandango]

delmon young got suspended for a year in the minors for attacking a player with his bat....that guy has serious issues...not to mention he is a HUGE UNDERACHIEVER onthe field!

L O S E R

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

...gross generalization to again bash grading.

Actually, it was not a gross generalization, it was a joke.

But, yes, it was meant to bash grading.

Doug

[howard38]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

delmon young got suspended for a year in the minors for attacking a player with his bat....that guy has serious issues...not to mention he is a HUGE UNDERACHIEVER onthe field!

L O S E R

Here it is. It was an umpire and he was suspended for fifty games but he should have been arrested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCX_XlRYYDo

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

9/10 is much more subjective vs a 1 and 2



gross generalization to again bash grading.

agreed, grading is gross.

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by howard38

Here it is. It was an umpire and he was suspended for fifty games but he should have been arrested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCX_XlRYYDo

"Look he finally hit something with his bat".

Best comment on the video

PSA YOU SUCK. That is BS that they would bump it for him. Not like he didn't pull some strings. Pretty sad that they have such a following and have destroyed the market with bullshit cards. PSA 4 with pin holes, PSA 5 and 6 with paper loss, Trimmed/Altered Wagner and many MANY MANY MANY MANY MORE F'ED UP CARDS. Karma is a B

This is no different than theft. JMO

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by howard38

Here it is. It was an umpire and he was suspended for fifty games but he should have been arrested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCX_XlRYYDo

Maybe if Delmon collected cards like his bro he'd mellow out. He just got in trouble for getting in a fight in NY and shouting anti Semitic slurs. Dimitri is supposed to be a good guy though, right?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

He just got in trouble for getting in a fight in NY and shouting anti Semitic slurs.

Paging Mel Gibson. Mr. Gibson, white courtesy phone...

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Paging Mel Gibson. Mr. Gibson, white courtesy phone...

HAHAHA.


Didn't Young charge people to see his collection in prior years? Or was this already mentioned?

[sycks22]

Just got my catalog today and in looking at the backs of some of the cards there's no way some of them should be 10's. The centering on the front is amazing on all of the cards, but don't the backs also have to have 50/50 centering? Check out the back of the Banks rookie (severe tilt) and Musial (25/75) L to R centering. I could be wrong, but the backs don't look like 10's. Anyone else notice that?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by sycks22

Just got my catalog today and in looking at the backs of some of the cards there's no way some of them should be 10's. The centering on the front is amazing on all of the cards, but don't the backs also have to have 50/50 centering? Check out the back of the Banks rookie (severe tilt) and Musial (25/75) L to R centering. I could be wrong, but the backs don't look like 10's. Anyone else notice that?

I still think it's pretty funny that Mr. Young could find Banks and Musial Rookies that PSA would bestow a 10 upon, but is having a terrible time finding an 81 Topps Valenzuela.

I'll tell you one thing. If I did have a high value card of say, a Wayne Gretzky Rookie card and I sold a PSA 9 version to somebody like Delmon...............I'd be pretty pissed if I found out this card magically graded a 10 for someone else. That would be like PSA taking thousands of dollars out of one persons pocket and depositing it into someone else's.

[Jay Wolt]

Not sure how many cards Dmitri got graded but the vast majority was already graded 10's when he purchased them.
He (through his purchasing agent Dave B.) has aggressively been buying PSA-10 rookies for years.

The irony was that the PSA-10's were crossed to GAI to help them receive more submissions since they landed a big time GAI collector.
No GAI's are in the SCP auction, so they are back in PSA holders

[packs]

The T206 that PSA graded a 10 had an off centered back too.

[michael3322]

I just found this on the PSA website.

PSA Card Grading Standards

GEM-MT 10: Gem Mint

A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card. Attributes include four perfectly sharp corners, sharp focus and full original gloss. A PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection if it doesn't impair the overall appeal of the card. The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed approximately 55/45 to 60/40 percent on the front, and 75/25 percent on the reverse.

MINT 9: Mint

A PSA Mint 9 is a superb-condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

NM-MT 8: Near Mint-Mint

A PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

...

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by michael3322

I just found this on the PSA website.

PSA Card Grading Standards

GEM-MT 10: Gem Mint

A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card. Attributes include four perfectly sharp corners, sharp focus and full original gloss. A PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection if it doesn't impair the overall appeal of the card. The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed approximately 55/45 to 60/40 percent on the front, and 75/25 percent on the reverse.

MINT 9: Mint

A PSA Mint 9 is a superb-condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

NM-MT 8: Near Mint-Mint

A PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

...

looks like the musial back might squeeze in under that 10 definition, but not the banks, he must have got a gimme on that one.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by travrosty

looks like the musial back might squeeze in under that 10 definition

only if you assume that the centering is based on where the writing stops. If the "card back" is actually a mm to each side of the writing (like if they were to have put a border around the wording) then it's 80/20 or worse.

[doug.goodman]

A PSA Gem Mint 10 ... The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed ... 60/40 percent on the front, and 75/25 percent on the reverse...

Ok, so a "10", a "perfect" card, doesn't actually have to be centered.

That makes perfect sense to me (insert smiley face here),
Doug

[glchen]

Remember that PSA does not have Pristine that SGC and Beckett have. Gem mint for SGC is 98. Pristine is 100

[sycks22]

Still confused how their definition of perfect is 25/75 centering on the back.

[jhs5120]

It's a beautiful collection, there's no point arguing that.

I'm sure if anyone had a problem with a back being centered 21.3/78.7 versus 25/75 they can take it up with SCP or PSA. I personally think all of the cards are amazing.

Every grading company has it's own set of flaws, PSA may make exceptions for high profile clients, who am I to judge? They have added value to most of our collections and they have given our hobby much needed exposure. All good things.

Jason

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

They have added value to most of our collections and they have given our hobby much needed exposure. All good things.

I actually would be perfectly happy if they had done neither of these things.

Doug

[Orioles1954]

I haven't heard much about SGC lately....wonder what their future is?

[FrankWakefield]

added value to most of our collections... I'm doubtful of that.
given our hobby much needed exposure... doubt it was given, don't think it was needed.

+1 to what Doug last said.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

And you flip buyers wonder why we raw guys find grading so laughable?

If I buy a 3 and sent it in enough times to make it a 4, could I then send it in enough times to make it a 5? Etc?

Doug

Doug, I collected raw '10's as a kid. I had tons of them: Mantles, Clementes, you name it. I even took especially good care of the future HOF'ers like Mantle. Still, they somehow ended up in much lower grades.

I think having a NM multi-thousand-dollar card in a protective numbered slab is probably a pretty good idea, even if there is some 'flip' corruption at that level.

But I agree that 3's are fine raw - that's how I collect them as well.

[howard38]

/

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

But I agree that 3's are fine raw - that's how I collect them as well.

All of mine are raw. None of them have numbers. Many of them HAD numbers, many up to 8's and 9's.

I will admit to once buying a PSA 10 McGwire rookie for $1800 and flipping it for $3600. I enjoyed the money slightly less that I enjoyed the fact that some schmuck had paid me that much (probably a similar thought to that of the guy who sold it to me).

Doug

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by howard38

Value added to cards is fine for the owner but it sucks for the buyer.

Which is why I would be perfectly happy if my collection was worthless.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

All of mine are raw. None of them have numbers. Many of them HAD numbers, many up to 8's and 9's.

I will admit to once buying a PSA 10 McGwire rookie for $1800 and flipping it for $3600. I enjoyed the money slightly less that I enjoyed the fact that some schmuck had paid me that much (probably a similar thought to that of the guy who sold it to me).

Doug

Hey, don't feel bad about liking money - everyone likes money, except for that baby in the commercial.

That is gutsy, de-slabbing 9's

[travrosty]

i love de=slabbing. who needs it, we know what condition the card is in, we have eyes. its the same card whether in a slab or out of a slab.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

That is gutsy, de-slabbing 9's

I would have no hesitation to remove a 10 from it's slab, if I had one, I only buy cards for prices I like, and for prices I like, I like raw.

The 10 McGwire was a fluke purchase based on an obviously impending bubble in the market. I only owned it for 4 or 5 days.

Doug

[drc]

In my opinion, 10s should have better than 50/50 centering.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

i love de=slabbing. who needs it, we know what condition the card is in, we have eyes. its the same card whether in a slab or out of a slab.

Sometimes grading companies catch things we collectors don't. SGC has saved me 10's of thousands of dollars over the years and BVG has saved me some money too. I like having their second sets of eyes looking at my raw purchases. I will only buy expensive raw cards with a guarantee of a numerical grade by one of the top 3 grading companies. It works for me but if you hate grading.....God love you....it's ok. Do what makes you happy and comfortable.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by drc

In my opinion, 10s should have better than 50/50 centering.

Laughing out loud.

In all 3 dimensions.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Laughing out loud.

In all 3 dimensions.

Me too...I was thinking something like 50/60 centering!!

[carrigansghost]

Easy now, my last company tried to make a 365 degree wheel....even rounder. Gotta love Boeing.

Rawn

[michael3322]

In the interest of tying up the loose ends, and in case this thread can be useful going forward...

PSA's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.psacard.com/services/psa_...tandards.chtml

BGS's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.beckett.com/estore/helpsy...x?ArticleId=47

On the topic of centering, this is from the BGS website:

Pristine 10
Centering: 50/50 all around on front. 60/40 or better on back.

Gem Mint 9.5
Centering: 50/50 one way, 55/45 the other on front. 65/35 or better on back


SGC's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

On the topic of centering, this is from the SGC website...

Grade Quality Description
100 PRISTINE A "virtually flawless" card. 50/50 centering, crisp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear under magnification.

98 GEM 10 55/45 or better centering, sharp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear. A slight print spot visible under close scrutiny is allowable if it does not detract from the aesthetics of the card.

[glynparson]

Almost everyone that sells Psa cards or has sold PSA cards for years knows you can get bumps. Guess what you can at SGC too. Its an opinion of course it can change and vary from person to person. Also 10 does not mean perfect that is where some of you are having problems. I have never seen a perfect regular issue tops card they all have something wrong. Also someone complained about rough cuts for the millionth time i will state beckett is the only grading company that downgrades for rough cuts. There are so many things to legitametly bash about grading, (favors, grading fake or altered cards).

[Clutch-Hitter]

It should not be possible for a nine to increase to a ten. It's much different than a lesser grade increasing to a higher grade, but never to a ten. The card in question was reviewed multiple times and each time the grader saw a flaw. Therefore, for it to increase to a ten, the flaw(s) vanished while the card was sealed inside the case or the grading standards were lowered for that card.

However, I am one who likes grading nonetheless and have used each of the three, PSA more so and will continue.