Goodwin Auction has some very nice cards...

[chiprop]

Nice stuff!
http://www.goodwinandco.com/Catalog.aspx

I think the talk about notebook covers recently brought these out. Any thoughts on final prices for these? They are not mine!

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...100&category=1

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...100&category=1

[cfc1909]

WOW that 205 Cy Young is killer!

[NonSportDaniel]

I realize that this is a baseball board, but I don't like that lot #587 at all; some unsuspecting buyer is going to think that they are getting an 8 when they are clearly not.

[glynparson]

Bill clearly has the ex or better designation in the title and does not have the number 8 in the title at all. Well actually I have the problem I have with all BCCG cards just no problem with how Bill has it listed.

[chiprop]

Why does Beckett have more than one grading co? I don't have any cards graded by them. Is one better than the other?

[calvindog]

LOL. Case in point.

[terjung]

I was a bit surprised to see cards graded by "SBC". I am not familiar with them, but it seems clear based on the grading scale that they are using (1 - 100 ... with 88 and 96 showing prominently) and the similarity in name to SGC that they are trying to be a "me too."

[botn]

SBC was around in the late 80s and early 90s. The only other grading company was Alan Hager's, ASA. They pre-date both PSA and SGC.

[calvindog]

Why on earth wouldn't the cards be crossed to SGC or PSA?

[chiprop]

Jeff- I think we know the answer to your question.

I'm wondering why a company would have 2 or more grading services? Anyone? And if a company has more than one service, can we trust either one?

update -NY up 2 in the 5th

[chiprop]

How about GAI? I am always a bit hesitant to buy a GAI card. Why haven't those been crossed to PSA or SGC? At least GAI has some credibility.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by chiprop

Jeff- I think we know the answer to your question.

The obvious answer is that they won't cross, right?

[Jantz]

I don't get to involved (yet) with these types of auctions, but there is one lot that I'm particularly interested in.


Jantz

[chiprop]

Jeff- Not so sure about the GAI. Some of those cross to a higher grade. It's a crapshoot. Doesn't look like the BCCG would. Personally, I can't get excited about graded cards unless they are SGC or PSA. I know they have their problems too, but it seems more legit.

[calvindog]

I was referring to the two SBC cards in the Goodwin auction. Obviously the reason they are still in those holders is because they didn't cross.

[Adam]

Nice EPDG backed T206 Lundgren. I remember talking with Ted Z. at his table at the national about how challenging that combination is.

[quinnsryche]

I'd like to chime in with a question & comment. I have never understood why a buyer's premium is attached to these type auctions. I have to pay an additional fee for the right to purchase an item? Where else in society does this apply? I can't think of one. Say what you want about Ebay, at least it's a simple "pay what you bid" system. And 17.5% seems ridiculously high. If you want $117.50 (for a $100 card) just make the minimum bid $117.50.

[barrysloate]

I believe Goodwin does not charge a seller's commission- it's 0%. So without a BP he is doing charity work. I suppose he could waive the BP and charge sellers 15-20%, but that just isn't done.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I'd like to chime in with a question & comment. I have never understood why a buyer's premium is attached to these type auctions. I have to pay an additional fee for the right to purchase an item? Where else in society does this apply? I can't think of one. Say what you want about Ebay, at least it's a simple "pay what you bid" system. And 17.5% seems ridiculously high. If you want $117.50 (for a $100 card) just make the minimum bid $117.50.

Unless the company is a non-profit one then the buyers premium is, many times, the only profit the auction company makes. That is the reason for a buyers premium. It's business 101. A sellers premium is a different story but they still exist in some places.

edited to say I only read the first part of Barry's explanation. The 2nd line is basically what I said too...nothing like redundancy to get the point across

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I have to pay an additional fee for the right to purchase an item? Where else in society does this apply? I can't think of one.

Almost anything and everything you buy. They are called TAXES

On a serious note you question strikes a bell with me and this is why I have only bought twice from and auction house.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I'd like to chime in with a question & comment. I have never understood why a buyer's premium is attached to these type auctions. I have to pay an additional fee for the right to purchase an item? Where else in society does this apply? I can't think of one. Say what you want about Ebay, at least it's a simple "pay what you bid" system. And 17.5% seems ridiculously high. If you want $117.50 (for a $100 card) just make the minimum bid $117.50.

It's just a shell game; as far as bidders are concerned, we only care about the total number out of pocket we will be paying - whether a % of that is described as a "buyer's premium" at a major auction house, or not, as on ebay, doesn't really matter - what matters is what we have to pay.

[quinnsryche]

I was on the Goodwin home page and it states a 17.5% buyers premium. That's where I got that # from. Posted for accuracy sake.

[canjond]

I thought SBC was SGC, albeit the earliest version of the company?

[Orioles1954]

Just as an FYI, we got a SBC card consigned to us last week. When I cracked the case, not only did the card smell to high heaven (glue) but it was also the rare 1957 Topps Mini variation of the player.

J-

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I believe Goodwin does not charge a seller's commission- it's 0%. So without a BP he is doing charity work.

Now that is the line of the day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

On a serious note you question strikes a bell with me and this is why I have only bought twice from and auction house.

Seriously?

[tbob]

BCCG was created by Beckett as kind of a collector's grade slab and the grades are more determined by authenticity than actual grade. There are BCCGs in 5 and 6 grade which wouldn't cross over to an SGC 20 or PSA 2. You have to be careful on these. The BVG is Beckett's regular grading which follows the grades received by SGC, PSA and GAI pretty closely. The BCCG grades are not related to anything. If you want to protect your card by slabbing it and think it looks nice in a slab, regardless of what the grade says, than BCCG is for you, otherwise, you need to have the BVG grading system and slab.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by botn

SBC was around in the late 80s and early 90s. The only other grading company was Alan Hager's, ASA. They pre-date both PSA and SGC.

Not exactly
Lou Costanzo & myself started a grading service in the late 80's
Shortlived of course as the hobby wasn't ready yet for something that radical
Dealers wanted to sell their over graded cards & work on 200-500% markups

Also before even Al Hagar was a Jewelry dealer out of Utah
He was grading cards around 1984
Didn't last long but he didn't go out business because of lack of business
but because of me
I sent him $8800 in cards to get graded
When they shipped the cards back to me via UPS his employee only insured it for $100 & of course the parcel got lost
I asked for my money
Said he didn't have it
So my friend called him & said we would be there within 24 hrs to "collect"
I called him the next day & the phone was disconnected & found out he moved out that day never to be seen again
So much for the Hobbys 1st grading service

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Seriously?

I primarily use Ebay to buy. I just don't think paying a massive fee is worth it to me. I also can't even keep up with whats being auctioned and when. Most the time the cards I am after surface after a large buy and the account is empty anyways. Prime example is the T205 Young on Goodwin now. Just dropped a few K on cards for my set and of course this one pops up.

Originally Posted by zippy

Not exactly
Lou Costanzo & myself started a grading service in the late 80's
Shortlived of course as the hobby wasn't ready yet for something that radical
Dealers wanted to sell their over graded cards & work on 200-500% markups

Also before even Al Hagar was a Jewelry dealer out of Utah
He was grading cards around 1984
Didn't last long but he didn't go out business because of lack of business
but because of me
I sent him $8800 in cards to get graded
When they shipped the cards back to me via UPS his employee only insured it for $100 & of course the parcel got lost
I asked for my money
Said he didn't have it
So my friend called him & said we would be there within 24 hrs to "collect"
I called him the next day & the phone was disconnected & found out he moved out that day never to be seen again
So much for the Hobbys 1st grading service

"You don't say" That is very interesting. I wonder if anyone here knows Al or his where abouts.

[Jim VB]

I heard a rumor, that more than one board member has been told that their "bidding privileges have been revoked."

Anyone else think it's a bad business practice to start blocking active bidders, especially those that actually pay for their winning lots?

Seems to me that the members of this board make up a pretty good chunk of the vintage market. I would think twice about consigning to a company that didn't freely allow reputable Net54 members to bid.

I didn't think anyone said anything bad enough to blocked.

(And no, it's not who you all think it is.)

[murcerfan]

ya'll need to just stay away from "these type of auctions"....
what with all the shill bidding and bidder penalties and shady dealings and "artwork".....
...just let me be the only one dumb enough to bid...stick with e-bay if you know what's good for you

[V117collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I heard a rumor, that more than one board member has been told that their "bidding privileges have been revoked."

Anyone else think it's a bad business practice to start blocking active bidders, especially those that actually pay for their winning lots?

Seems to me that the members of this board make up a pretty good chunk of the vintage market. I would think twice about consigning to a company that didn't freely allow reputable Net54 members to bid.

I didn't think anyone said anything bad enough to blocked.

(And no, it's not who you all think it is.)

My bidding privileges was revoked because I was trying to login through an old handle. I quickly figured it out, no fault on Goodwin & Co... I must have changed my handle a few times due to key-loggers (hackers) gaining access to my private account/s...

I Emailed Bill (Goodwin & Co) yesterday regarding being revoked, with no reply. I guess he noticed I was bidding with the correct handle; Problem Solved.

That reminds me it's time to change my Email passwords AGAIN!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by V117collector

That reminds me it's time to change my Email passwords AGAIN!!!

Brad- I think you might consider changing your birth name too. People are on to it!!

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by V117collector

My bidding privileges was revoked because I was trying to login through an old handle. I quickly figured it out, no fault on Goodwin & Co... I must have changed my handle a few times due to key-loggers (hackers) gaining access to my private account/s...

I Emailed Bill (Goodwin & Co) yesterday regarding being revoked, with no reply. I guess he noticed I was bidding with the correct handle; Problem Solved.

That reminds me it's time to change my Email passwords AGAIN!!!

LOL! Yes, Brad. I was talking about you. You might ask yourself though... just how did I know you had been blocked by Goodwin? You must be letting those readable brain waves leak out again!

[calvindog]

Well, my bidding privileges are not presently revoked. They were once when I dared to point out that an unspecified card was simultaneously on ebay while in Goodwin's auction but Bill was kind enough to lift my punishment; I guess he figured it wouldn't be fair to the consignors to block bidders who actually spend money at auctions and pay their bills on time. After all, without consignors there really are no auctions. Even Doug Allen recognizes that and has never banned me from his auctions. Maybe Bill needs to toughen up a bit because I'm factually certain that banning bidders will not stop criticism of an auction house. Neither will personal attacks or phone calls. Cessation of fraud, however, will shut up even the biggest critics.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

I primarily use Ebay to buy. I just don't think paying a massive fee is worth it to me. I also can't even keep up with whats being auctioned and when. Most the time the cards I am after surface after a large buy and the account is empty anyways. Prime example is the T205 Young on Goodwin now. Just dropped a few K on cards for my set and of course this one pops up.

How do you figure you are paying a massive fee? The buyer's premium has nothing to do with you, it has to do with how the auction house and the consignor split the final sale price.

[nolemmings]

I agree Peter. I've never really understood why someone who is willing to pay $200 for a card won't just bid $170 and count on writing out the check for the full two bills, i.e. simply factor it into the bidding. It really makes no nevermind to the buyer who sees the cash in the end.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily understand why they can't simply have a straight bidding process with the auction house just taking its cut from the final hammer price. The same bidder presumably will offer his same $200. I suspect it is designed to have some psychological effect or some hidden unappreciated impact, like the guy buying his car for $29,999.00 saying he got it for under $30K. Still, it takes so little to overcome such sophistry, and it just may (and apparently does) alienate those who think someone is trying to pull something. Is there some different tax treatment or other advantage to adding the BP that I'm missing?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

On the other hand, I don't necessarily understand why they can't simply have a straight bidding process with the auction house just taking its cut from the final hammer price. The same bidder presumably will offer his same $200. I suspect it is designed to have some psychological effect or some hidden unappreciated impact...

I've always understood it to be just that, but for the consignor, not the bidder. I've spoken to a number of first-time consignors that got taken in by the whole "low consignment fee" offer, thinking they're getting the full amount, outside of the consignment fee.

[V117collector]

Originally Posted by Leon

Brad- I think you might consider changing your birth name too. People are on to it!!

Leon I was just stating some facts sorry you can't handle that!!!

Originally Posted by Jim VB

LOL! Yes, Brad. I was talking about you. You might ask yourself though... just how did I know you had been blocked by Goodwin? You must be letting those readable brain waves leak out again!

Jim you heard a Rumor regarding someones bidding privileges being revoked. I find it very strange this all happen in the same time period.. I never accused you of hacking so you can Relax...

Maybe the real person in qusetion might come forward regarding this Rumor.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by V117collector

Maybe the real person in qusetion might come forward regarding this Rumor.

Why would he? What would be gained? Do you not believe me?

That issue is between him and Goodwin. My point in mentioning it is directed at potential consignors. Why would you consign to an auction house that was limiting the pool of bidders because they didn't like what someone said about them?

[V117collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Why would he? What would be gained? Do you not believe me?

That issue is between him and Goodwin. My point in mentioning it is directed at potential consignors. Why would you consign to an auction house that was limiting the pool of bidders because they didn't like what someone said about them?

LOL... The qusetion is what do you gain by trying to tarnish a Company name on a Rumor.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by V117collector

LOL... The qusetion is what do you gain by trying to tarnish a Company name on a Rumor.

Well... nothing. Which is what makes my comment so believable. I have never consigned to Goodwin. I have purchased from them a time or two.

Also, stating the facts is not intended to "tarnish" the company. I was trying to alert potential consignors that maybe, just maybe, their pool of potential bidders isn't as large as they would think. And that the reason for that is that this one company has eliminated certain bidders from the auction process.

[wilkcards]

Originally Posted by NonSportDaniel

I realize that this is a baseball board, but I don't like that lot #587 at all; some unsuspecting buyer is going to think that they are getting an 8 when they are clearly not.

Which lot was that? It's been withdrawn.

Originally Posted by chiprop

Jeff- I think we know the answer to your question.

I'm wondering why a company would have 2 or more grading services? Anyone? And if a company has more than one service, can we trust either one?

update -NY up 2 in the 5th

When grading first became popular, Beckett still was the top name in collecting but things have clearly gone way down hill...I remember "pristine" bgs cards going for ridiculous prices circa 2000.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by wilkcards

Which lot was that? It's been withdrawn.

It was a 1957 Topps Basketball Russell, graded 8. Unfortunately, it was graded by BCCG. It was probably a 4 or a 5 in the real world.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by wilkcards

When grading first became popular, Beckett still was the top name in collecting but things have clearly gone way down hill...I remember "pristine" bgs cards going for ridiculous prices circa 2000.

Beckett's is still near the top in grading, in my opinion. But this "Collector's" division (BCCG) is a real head scratcher.

The concept was to offer a lower price alternative that would encapsulate a card and protect it. It is/was cheaper. They will do 1000 cards for $3 each. 10,000 cards for $2 each. But, if I remember right, even though they call it a "10 point system", they really only graded the cards from 6 to 10.


If they have changed that, and adhere to a standard 10 point system, I'd be OK with it. The slabs are cheaper. There is no inner sleeve. It's a budget alternative.

But if the grading scales are different, all credibility is gone, because consumers won't understand it.

[autograf]

I think they started BCCG so they could grade a bunch of crap for places like Target & Walmart so companies that supply them could put these high graded cards in blister packs along with wax and other cards and charge $19.95 or $29.95 to the unsuspecting public. JMO...........

Peter and Todd now that you guys have laid that out it does make more sense to me about the BP's. I still don't like the fact that I have to pay 15% of what I bid regardless. Why does it have to be that high Cant' an auction house survive off 6-10%? Leon and Scott do 10% and I am sure they are just fine. Thats 5% each in simple math.

So why isn't there an auction house that charges 3-5% sellers fees irregardless or the reach around you give them and charge 3-5% BP. I would bid on that. Its less than Taxes on an item. Oh yeah then I have to pay some absurd shipping $ not close to actuall shipping price it cost.

So if I bid $8500 on the T205 Young and win it will cost me $9775. That is $1275 in fees

If it is done the way I think is fair. $8500 cost me $8925 + shipping and the seller gives up $425. That is $850 for the house.

I could sleep at nite with that justification. This is just my opinion but I would like to hear if it makes sense to anyone else or if I am pissing up a rope into the wind here

[Matt]

If you're willing to spend $6000 on the card, why do you care who gets what % of the fees? If the house took a smaller percentage, you'd still be out of pocket the same amount for the card.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Peter and Todd now that you guys have laid that out it does make more sense to me about the BP's. I still don't like the fact that I have to pay 15% of what I bid regardless. Why does it have to be that high Cant' an auction house survive off 6-10%? Leon and Scott do 10% and I am sure they are just fine. Thats 5% each in simple math.

So why isn't there an auction house that charges 3-5% sellers fees irregardless or the reach around you give them and charge 3-5% BP. I would bid on that. Its less than Taxes on an item. Oh yeah then I have to pay some absurd shipping $ not close to actuall shipping price it cost.

So if I bid $8500 on the T205 Young and win it will cost me $9775. That is $1275 in fees

If it is done the way I think is fair. $8500 cost me $8925 + shipping and the seller gives up $425. That is $850 for the house.

I could sleep at nite with that justification. This is just my opinion but I would like to hear if it makes sense to anyone else or if I am pissing up a rope into the wind here

slight correction...we (Brockelman and Luckey Auctions) are 0% sellers fee and 12.5% buyers premium.