SGC 5 T206 Wagner

[parkplace33]

Not sure if this is new to net54 or old news. Interesting to see if/when this comes to market.

[tycobb]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CW]

Wow, very cool!

Although that grade might be a liiiiiiiitle bit generous, especially considering it was only graded a few years ago.

[4815162342]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=323291

[swarmee]

Yeah, it's a 3 no matter how well centered or pretty it is. It is not a playing card; it shouldn't have rounded corners.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Yeah, it's a 3 no matter how well centered or pretty it is. It is not a playing card; it shouldn't have rounded corners.

PSA 2.5 max. I would not, however, turn it down.

[gonefishin]

Last night was Season 2, episode 1 of Golden's show on Netflix. There was a big segment on this card in the show. Mr. Golden takes 10M in cash to the owner "Steve" (Who knows if the cash was the real deal), and attempts to get him to let Mr. Golden send the card to auction - he was turned down.

I'm sure much more to follow in the upcoming episodes regarding the card.

There is a thread in the water cooler section on the show if anyone wants to chime in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Friends and family/Animal Farm grading plan?

[darwinbulldog]

Paid $0.01 for it?

[sreader3]

3.5

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Paid $0.01 for it?

I would assume it was part of a larger group lot of cards (with all sorts of the type we like to pursue today), all for a penny a card.


Brian

[G1911]

If 'grading' was sensible and honest this card would be an extreme embarrassment to SGC. Original thread was pretty funny

[mrreality68]

Regardless of the grade

I would not mind having that card

Love the look

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Regardless of the grade

I would not mind having that card

Love the look

Amazing card, but the assigned grade is patently ridiculous even by the standard from 10 years ago. That was never a "5"

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Amazing card, but the assigned grade is patently ridiculous even by the standard from 10 years ago. That was never a "5"

Agreed I am just saying I would still love to own it.

Even the 1/2 wagner card that sold a few years ago is still a beauty to me.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Agreed I am just saying I would still love to own it.

Even the 1/2 wagner card that sold a few years ago is still a beauty to me.

It's definitely one of the nicest Wagners, and let's face it the vast majority of us would take any Wagner we could actually get our hands on. But I don't see how SGC does themselves any favors with a grade like that. I guess it's less egregious than giving a hand cut card an 8.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Yeah, it's a 3 no matter how well centered or pretty it is. It is not a playing card; it shouldn't have rounded corners.

I've never understood this, or the subtle "pass" that many other prewar but especially tobacco cards get on corners. If that was a 1950's Topps card with those corners, no way is that within shouting distance of a 5.

[3-2-count]

When I look at that card my focus isn't on the number.

Over graded? Sure. But who cares..... It's stunning!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

When I look at that card my focus isn't on the number.

Over graded? Sure. But who cares..... It's stunning!

Agree...its a beautiful example.

[bnorth]

All I know is when grading companies give me gifts like that I am very happy.

[boneheadandrube]

There's also an obviously trimmed Wagner in an 8 holder not doing its grading company any PR favors.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

When I look at that card my focus isn't on the number.

Over graded? Sure. But who cares..... It's stunning!

This.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

There's also an obviously trimmed Wagner in an 8 holder not doing its grading company any PR favors.

Which one is worth more: the trimmed PSA 8 or the overgraded SGC 5?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Which one is worth more: the trimmed PSA 8 or the overgraded PSA 5?

Excellent question.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Which one is worth more: the trimmed PSA 8 or the overgraded SGC 5?

To the collector the SGC 5 to the investor the PSA 8. The PSA 8 holds way more value to the investor. I believe that if that card, the PSA 8 ever came to auction it would do well over 100 million.

[steve B]

Pretty much every Wagner is over graded.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

To the collector the SGC 5 to the investor the PSA 8. The PSA 8 holds way more value to the investor. I believe that if that card, the PSA 8 ever came to auction it would do well over 100 million.

Which will sell for more: PSA 8 T206 Wagner or 1952 Topps Mick PSA 10?

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

To the collector the SGC 5 to the investor the PSA 8. The PSA 8 holds way more value to the investor. I believe that if that card, the PSA 8 ever came to auction it would do well over 100 million.

100 percent. Definitely an iconic card in the hobby. The lore, the backstory.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Which will sell for more: PSA 8 T206 Wagner or 1952 Topps Mick PSA 10?

Wagner

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

100 percent. Definitely an iconic card in the hobby. The lore, the backstory.

Absolutely

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

To the collector the SGC 5 to the investor the PSA 8. The PSA 8 holds way more value to the investor. I believe that if that card, the PSA 8 ever came to auction it would do well over 100 million.

It might break the record for the highest auction price of any sports collectible, but $100 million? No way.

[Timeless Cardboard]

I’m a SGC fan and only grade with SGC but in my opinion that Wagner is at best a 2 super rounded corners and a spot at the top of the card. Absolutely great looking card but way to over graded.

[Carter08]

I would have thought the Gretzky Wagner fell a little out of favor due to trimming. Still worth many many millions but is the history of the card a good thing for it or does it negatively affect it?

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I would have thought the Gretzky Wagner fell a little out of favor due to trimming. Still worth many many millions but is the history of the card a good thing for it or does it negatively affect it?

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jstottlemire1

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

The received wisdom is that it was sheet cut back in the annals of time, was still oversize, and was later trimmed by Mastro.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Jstottlemire1

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

I have never understood the vitriol for that card as long as it meets the measurement requirements for a standard T206 (I don't know if it does or not but I assume it does). Like you said, it's hand cut/sheet cut not trimmed. From what I understand Mastro took an oversized football shaped Wagner and cut it to a standard size T206 with an exacto knife. That is completely different than busting out a PSA 8 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan and then micro trimming it and turning it into a PSA 9 or PSA 10. Saying that and supporting Dean's Cards wiil get me ostracized here .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have never understood the vitriol for that card as long as it meets the measurement requirements for a standard T206 (I don't know if it does or not but I assume it does). Like you said, it's hand cut/sheet cut not trimmed. From what I understand Mastro took an oversized football shaped Wagner and cut it to a standard size T206 with an exacto knife. That is completely different than busting out a PSA 8 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan and then micro trimming it and turning it into a PSA 9 or PSA 10. Saying that and supporting Dean's Cards wiil get me ostracized here .

I think the vitriol is not so much for what Mastro did, but for PSA assigning it a numerical grade. If there is virtriol at all, the price history would suggest otherwise.

[G1911]

No one hates the card (except the conspiracy theorists who claim it is a fake despite every single eyewitness' analysis), people hate the lie PSA tells about the card, that this very nice Authentic is an 8 just because that lie is beneficial to some rich people.

Didn't Mastro admit to trimming it after the alleged 'sheet cutting' in court?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

No one hates the card (except the conspiracy theorists who claim it is a fake despite every single eyewitness' analysis), people hate the lie PSA tells about the card, that this very nice Authentic is an 8 just because that lie is beneficial to some rich people.

Didn't Mastro admit to trimming it after the alleged 'sheet cutting' in court?

He did.

It was an oversize sheet cut card when he bought it from Alan Ray, so already no better than AUTH. He then made it look prettier. His trimming did not affect the grade if you assume PSA's standards did not include grading sheet cut cards.

[Beercan collector]

T206resource says same card

[Vintagecatcher]

00000001 big lie started it all...ironic don't you think!

Patrick

[Zan]

I cackled when Steve rejected Ken Goldin's offer

[Tomi]

In one of the episodes Ken Kendrick said he was going to pass the PSA 8 Wagner to his son and his son told him he has no intention of ever selling. We might not see it sell again in our lifetime.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

00000001 big lie started it all...ironic don't you think!

Patrick

Someday we can only hope it will serve as the ultimate test of their "guarantee".

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Zan

I cackled when Steve rejected Ken Goldin's offer

Same. It kinda made the show for me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Someday we can only hope it will serve as the ultimate test of their "guarantee".

Nobody is ever going to buy it and then try to return it to PSA.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is ever going to buy it and then try to return it to PSA.

They would be nuts to do so. Plus there’s a cap on their guarantee. Pretty sure the cap is $250k. So doubly nuts to make the attempt.

[rats60]

PSA graded sheet cut cards in the 90s, so the PSA 8 grade for the Gretzky Wagner was legitimate at the time. PSA doesn't recall cards and regrade them by today's standards.

I don't understand why people are so bothered by the grade. I bet if they had a over graded card in an old holder, they wouldn't send it to PSA to get it reholdered with a lower grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

PSA graded sheet cut cards in the 90s, so the PSA 8 grade for the Gretzky Wagner was legitimate at the time. PSA doesn't recall cards and regrade them by today's standards.

I don't understand why people are so bothered by the grade. I bet if they had a over graded card in an old holder, they wouldn't send it to PSA to get it reholdered with a lower grade.

I have NEVER heard that justification. David Hall's defense was always that it was original.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

PSA graded sheet cut cards in the 90s, so the PSA 8 grade for the Gretzky Wagner was legitimate at the time. PSA doesn't recall cards and regrade them by today's standards.

I don't understand why people are so bothered by the grade. I bet if they had a over graded card in an old holder, they wouldn't send it to PSA to get it reholdered with a lower grade.

This is not true and PSA has never even tried to claim this. People will just make things up to defend corporations they don’t even work for lol.