SGC 5 T206 Wagner

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I would have thought the Gretzky Wagner fell a little out of favor due to trimming. Still worth many many millions but is the history of the card a good thing for it or does it negatively affect it?

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jstottlemire1

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

The received wisdom is that it was sheet cut back in the annals of time, was still oversize, and was later trimmed by Mastro.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Jstottlemire1

It’s not a trimmed card though it was cut from a sheet. Very different in some eyes, some hate it, yet some don’t mind at all.

I have never understood the vitriol for that card as long as it meets the measurement requirements for a standard T206 (I don't know if it does or not but I assume it does). Like you said, it's hand cut/sheet cut not trimmed. From what I understand Mastro took an oversized football shaped Wagner and cut it to a standard size T206 with an exacto knife. That is completely different than busting out a PSA 8 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan and then micro trimming it and turning it into a PSA 9 or PSA 10. Saying that and supporting Dean's Cards wiil get me ostracized here .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have never understood the vitriol for that card as long as it meets the measurement requirements for a standard T206 (I don't know if it does or not but I assume it does). Like you said, it's hand cut/sheet cut not trimmed. From what I understand Mastro took an oversized football shaped Wagner and cut it to a standard size T206 with an exacto knife. That is completely different than busting out a PSA 8 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan and then micro trimming it and turning it into a PSA 9 or PSA 10. Saying that and supporting Dean's Cards wiil get me ostracized here .

I think the vitriol is not so much for what Mastro did, but for PSA assigning it a numerical grade. If there is virtriol at all, the price history would suggest otherwise.

[G1911]

No one hates the card (except the conspiracy theorists who claim it is a fake despite every single eyewitness' analysis), people hate the lie PSA tells about the card, that this very nice Authentic is an 8 just because that lie is beneficial to some rich people.

Didn't Mastro admit to trimming it after the alleged 'sheet cutting' in court?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

No one hates the card (except the conspiracy theorists who claim it is a fake despite every single eyewitness' analysis), people hate the lie PSA tells about the card, that this very nice Authentic is an 8 just because that lie is beneficial to some rich people.

Didn't Mastro admit to trimming it after the alleged 'sheet cutting' in court?

He did.

It was an oversize sheet cut card when he bought it from Alan Ray, so already no better than AUTH. He then made it look prettier. His trimming did not affect the grade if you assume PSA's standards did not include grading sheet cut cards.

[Beercan collector]

T206resource says same card

[Vintagecatcher]

00000001 big lie started it all...ironic don't you think!

Patrick

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

T206resource says same card

There is a little dark spot in the background to the right of his head, closer to border and about the same level as his hair's highest spot, that appears on both card images. Definitely points to it being a good possibility that this is same card as the PSA8.

Brian

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have never understood the vitriol for that card as long as it meets the measurement requirements for a standard T206 (I don't know if it does or not but I assume it does). Like you said, it's hand cut/sheet cut not trimmed. From what I understand Mastro took an oversized football shaped Wagner and cut it to a standard size T206 with an exacto knife. That is completely different than busting out a PSA 8 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan and then micro trimming it and turning it into a PSA 9 or PSA 10. Saying that and supporting Dean's Cards wiil get me ostracized here .

How are these two examples even remotely different?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

How are these two examples even remotely different?

My thinking is that if the Wagner was already sheet cut, it's only AUTH to begin with, so cutting it a second time doesn't really change anything. Whereas microtrimming a Jordan is altering a factory cut.