Let the experiment begin...

[brett]

Since the Shoeless Joe/T202 post everybody is wondering what the value of this card will be now and I've received several private messages from people offering to buy my extra one and to "name my price". Even though the 3 that were on ebay were quickly scooped up with "buy it now" I didn't feel comfortable naming a price because I didn't want to rip anybody off or short-change myself. Instead, I just put up a nice PSA 4 example of it on ebay with a low starting bid and I'll be as interested as anybody to see what it ends up going for.

[4815162342]

This probably should be here: http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

[T206Collector]

Your argument would have had a little more credibility if you weren't now just trying to profit off it.

[Jim VB]

Daryl is right. Announcements of "for profit" auctions belong in the proper section of the BST. Not here.

The fact that you couldn't wait more than 2-3 days to try to profit off this speaks volumes about your intentions. Very transparent.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Daryl is right. Announcements of "for profit" auctions belong in the proper section of the BST. Not here.

The fact that you couldn't wait more than 2-3 days to try to profit off this speaks volumes about your intentions. Very transparent.

I agree this belongs in the BST eBay post but I fail to see how trying to sell this t202 at a profit changes the fact that Brett made a really terrific new observation that no one had seen in 100 years, made a great contribution to the Board, and (despite getting a lot of guff) turned out to be absolutely right. If I invent some terrific new product or come up with some new idea, can I not try to profit from it? Of course he's "credible" because he was right. The folks I don't find credible are the "experts" who won't concede that he was right no matter how convincing the proof.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

The fact that you couldn't wait more than 2-3 days to try to profit off this speaks volumes about your intentions. Very transparent.

You're completely wrong (numerous people have been CONTACTING ME about wanting it)... but even if profiting were my sole intention is that suddenly against the rules of collecting? Is there an unwritten rule I'm not aware of? I'm sorry that this is so beneath someone as principled as yourself. When would it have been acceptable in your opinion to put it up (5 days, a year, never)? Here we go again...

[brett]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

This probably should be here: http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

I'm sorry... being new here I don't know what is supposed to be posted where. If it doesn't belong here just tell me how to move it or possibly Leon or one of the moderators can do it for me. Thanks.

[brett]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Your argument would have had a little more credibility if you weren't now just trying to profit off it.

One has nothing to do with the other. How, why, and when I decide to sell my cards is none of yours or anybody else's business. Just so you can sleep easy, when I made my initial post here I didn't even remember that I had another one until I later disclosed it and that's when several people started contacting me. If you had a surplus item that you didn't need and other people wanted it badly, why not give them the opportunity to have it? I won't be holding a gun to anybody's head to make them bid on it.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by brett

I've received several private messages from people offering to buy my extra one and to "name my price".

Brett starts a thread to hype a card that is inconclusively Joe Jackson, then Brett is back to sell his multiple examples. You're a great addition to this forum, Brett.

Bill

[brett]

Originally Posted by bcornell

Brett starts a thread to hype a card that is inconclusively Joe Jackson, then Brett is back to sell his multiple examples. You're a great addition to this forum, Brett.

Bill

Thanks Bill. Hopefully I can earn back your respect... It's VERY important to me. If your logic were correct why wouldn't I have bought up the other 3 that were on ebay right before I started the topic? I have ONE extra if that's what you mean by "multiple examples". Again, what I do with my cards is simply none of your business, got it?

[ChiefBenderForever]

You brought it to everybodys attention so you deserve first crack at it to see what the new market for this card is. I imagine it will do quite a bit better than the psa4 that sold last week for $115 the day you posted. Will be fun to watch and see what happens !

[collectbaseball]

Originally Posted by brett

How, why, and when I decide to sell my cards is none of yours or anybody else's business.

I don't really have a problem with you selling the card, and it was a great observation on your part.

But... when you post on the forum that it's for sale, it sort of makes it everyone's business.

[FUBAR]

I dont see anything wrong with what Brett is doing, there is now demand for a card based on the assumption it is Joe Jax, so guys want in. If the guy has two, and everyone wants to get there hands on it, why not, i am sure most of you would do it as well. Same as the three that were snapped up via BIN.

Right now there is more demand then card and if i had an extra and people wanted it, i would follow suit as well.

You guys are way over reacting. He is only making this move because people are bugging him to sell it. I dont think he hyped it to sell a spare, i think he simply wanted people's opinion and on this board, there are some very weighty opinions, and some real experts. How is a newbie going to know his first post would be a 400 post thread.

We need to stop looking for the negative in the situation and find the positive. He helped identify a new Joe Jax card and no one is forcing you to bid on it!!!!

[benjulmag]

Here is Brett's description of the card as posted on eBay:

"Up for bid is a 1912 T202 Hassan Triple Folder card professionaly graded PSA 4 VG/EX ! The card is titled "Lord Catches His Man" and it features Lord and Tannehill on the side panels as well as what is now known to be a picture of Shoeless Joe Jackson sliding into 3rd base on the center panel. This card is nearly 100 years old and was just recently discovered to feature Shoeless Joe from his early days in Cleveland. His cards are considered to be among the rarest and most sought after in the hobby and the value will surely be going up."

The poll conducted on this board shows 20% of those responding regard the center panel as definitely depicting Jackson. 80% would characterize there being reasonable doubt, and 50% would quantity the doubt as exceeding a one in ten probability. This poll was conducted at the conclusion of a 500 post thread discussing every conceivable aspect of the issue, thus making the poll participants as informed as any poll participants can reasonably be about an issue. While, to be clear, it more likely than not is Jackson in that middle panel, I don't think it is honest to say it is "now known to be a picture of Shoeless Joe Jackson sliding into 3rd base on the center panel". It is one thing for Brett to say he is certain is Jackson. That makes it his opinion, which he is entitled to hold and to which people can agree or disagree. But by using the phrase "it is now known", he is saying the hobby regards it as a certainty, which is simply not true.

That said, it was a predictable as the sun rising in the east that we would see sellers of this card resort to these tactics.

[Tcards-Please]

[QUOTE=FUBAR;812767]Same as the three that were snapped up via BIN.
QUOTE]

Actually only two sold as I did the BIN on the $69.95 card, paid and within an hour, the seller emailed and said that he couldn't find the card and he didn't know what happened too. So we agreed to reverse the transaction.

r/
Frank

[barrysloate]

The market will determine exactly how certain everybody is that it's Jackson.

[mark evans]

My hope is that another half-dozen or so show up on eBay in the near future as other sellers look to take advantage of this discovery.

[brett]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

I dont see anything wrong with what Brett is doing, there is now demand for a card based on the assumption it is Joe Jax, so guys want in. If the guy has two, and everyone wants to get there hands on it, why not, i am sure most of you would do it as well. Same as the three that were snapped up via BIN.

Right now there is more demand then card and if i had an extra and people wanted it, i would follow suit as well.

You guys are way over reacting. He is only making this move because people are bugging him to sell it. I dont think he hyped it to sell a spare, i think he simply wanted people's opinion and on this board, there are some very weighty opinions, and some real experts. How is a newbie going to know his first post would be a 400 post thread.

We need to stop looking for the negative in the situation and find the positive. He helped identify a new Joe Jax card and no one is forcing you to bid on it!!!!

THANK YOU!!!! Everything you said is dead on. Believe me, I didn't start all this so I could make an extra few hundred dollars on a card. All I'm doing is giving somebody who wants it an opportunity to get it. Some people offered me "whatever I wanted" for it but I didn't feel comfortable doing that. I'd rather let bidders decide what it's worth and then that's what I'll get... nothing more and nothing less.

[brett]

Originally Posted by collectbaseball

I don't really have a problem with you selling the card, and it was a great observation on your part.

But... when you post on the forum that it's for sale, it sort of makes it everyone's business.

My thing is why would anybody care? Say my sole intentions were strictly to make a profit on it, is there anything wrong with that? Why would anybody care about what my intentions are? It's simple... If people want the card they can bid on it, and if not then they won't.

[brett]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

the market will determine exactly how certain everybody is that it's jackson.

exactly!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Brett your audience on ebay is not limited to this group, you might want to make your listing more persuasive.

[Leon]

I had about a 45 minute phone conversation with Brett this morning about the description. While I mostly agree with Corey in the above post there is another relevent fact here. Arguably the foremost expert of Joe Jackson, in the whole hobby, Mike Nola, has deemed this 100% Joe Jackson, case closed. That is very powerful in my opinion. Am I now 100% sure it's him, no, but I am more than 95% as opposed to my previous view. I would have still liked to see the wording be different but I do see the point given all of the info we now have.

Also, after speaking with Brett for a long time on the phone, I feel 100% certain this was not a money move. I don't know Brett's financial resources but it would be akin to me going through all of this to make an extra $200. If anyone thinks I would do that then they don't know me. I am very much in Brett's corner. I feel he is a positive addition to the board and the hobby. My only question is how will he out do his first thread? regards

[JasonL]

what else did you guys talk about!?

Brett, I'll give you $50 for it!
good luck with the sale. I think this will be a fun one to watch.

[glchen]

Sorry, Brett. Even with the above post from Leon, I have to say I'm another poster that's lost some respect for you. Again, that was a brilliant first post, but now the luster has lost some of its shine. The reason is "conflict of interest." This is similar to a politican writing laws on Energy policy, who just so happens to own tons of shares of Exxon Mobil. The politician needs to recuse himself from the vote or move his shares to a blind trust, so that he could seem impartial. If you have put in that first post, along with the theory that you thought that card was Joe Jackson, that you had an extra card that you'd probably be willing to sell, and had that upfront, you would've looked a lot better than you do now. Or, if you put the card on ebay, but tried to stay anonymous about it, and only return pm'd those people who contacted you, and not announce that you're selling to the entire board, you would have looked somewhat better.

[milkit1]

I see nothing wrong with Brett selling that card. However I can't wait for this to die down. Without the card actually saying tht its Joe Jackson I don't feel its anymore important than it ever was.

[brett]

Originally Posted by glchen

Sorry, Brett. Even with the above post from Leon, I have to say I'm another poster that's lost some respect for you. Again, that was a brilliant first post, but now the luster has lost some of its shine. The reason is "conflict of interest." This is similar to a politican writing laws on Energy policy, who just so happens to own tons of shares of Exxon Mobil. The politician needs to recuse himself from the vote or move his shares to a blind trust, so that he could seem impartial. If you have put in that first post, along with the theory that you thought that card was Joe Jackson, that you had an extra card that you'd probably be willing to sell, and had that upfront, you would've looked a lot better than you do now. Or, if you put the card on ebay, but tried to stay anonymous about it, and only return pm'd those people who contacted you, and not announce that you're selling to the entire board, you would have looked somewhat better.

That's your opinion, and while it's always nice to be respected I can live without yours if that's how you feel. There's no conflict because it's two completely seperate things. Unlike a politician passing a policy that society has no choice but to live by, you still have all the choice in the world in regards to this. You can choose 1) That it's NOT Shoeless Joe if that's what you want to believe, and 2) That you don't want to bid on the card. Nobody's forcing you to do either. If I was the SOLE authority on declaring this a Shoeless Joe card and then started selling them that would be a different story. I disclosed that I had another one AS SOON as I realized it (not that it matters or is any of your business) and when I mentioned here that I was selling it I knew people like you would take exception (there's always gonna be haters), but I still did it to be as honest and upfront as possible. Sometimes in life you just can't win.

Also, even if I DID start this topic for the purpose of making a profit (which I didn't) what difference does it make? How has the luster lost it's shine? A fact is still a fact. Just because I'm selling one did we suddenly NOT still discover a new Shoeless Joe card? Did you not still gain free knowledge here thanks to me? In 100 years when we're all dead and gone will future generations not still know about a Shoeless Joe Jackson card because we proved it here last week? Your logic makes no sense whatsoever. The discovery is the discovery. What I choose to do after that is my business, not yours. In fact, if anybody should be entitled to be the first one to put this card on the market it should be the person who discovered it.

[brett]

Originally Posted by milkit1

I see nothing wrong with Brett selling that card. However I can't wait for this to die down. Without the card actually saying tht its Joe Jackson I don't feel its anymore important than it ever was.

Thanks Sean, I agree with you 100%... It's up to the masses to decide what it's worth. You're entitled to believe that it's no more important, and the next guy is entitled to believe that it's the greatest discovery since sliced bread! Personaly I think it's somewhere in between. While it would be better if he had a side-panel card in this set or a T205 or T206, he doesn't, and so this is all we have of Shoeless Joe in the way of a T card (not to mention the scarcity and ridiculously high prices of his other cards) making me be believe that it's certainly important and will definitely be more desireable. But like a peice of art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.