We bought a raw lot from Goldin and relied on their description.

[martyp]

My son is taking over my card business All Marty's Stuff this year. With the lack of card shows, he has been making purchases through auction houses. He asked me about a recent lot that he bought through Goldin.
This is the lot that he purchased. https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=94846
The description is "1960 Topps Baseball Cards Collection (95+) – Including Mantle, Yastrzemski RC, Koufax and Additional HOFers!! A nice grouping, featuring a number of stars and "key" pieces. Overall condition is about EX to NM with a few cards nicer and some lesser."
When the package was opened, it was found there is tape residue across every card back. When the company was called, the customer service rep put a supervisor on the phone. The supervisor verified with the "Submission Department" and they felt that if sent in for grading EX to NRMT would be expected.

I have been helping my son navigate the different auction houses. I told him that I did not know how Goldin grades. From this lot and response he has learned a lot.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by martyp

My son is taking over my card business All Marty's Stuff this year. With the lack of card shows, he has been making purchases through auction houses. He asked me about a recent lot that he bought through Goldin.
This is the lot that he purchased. https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=94846
The description is "1960 Topps Baseball Cards Collection (95+) – Including Mantle, Yastrzemski RC, Koufax and Additional HOFers!! A nice grouping, featuring a number of stars and "key" pieces. Overall condition is about EX to NM with a few cards nicer and some lesser."
When the package was opened, it was found there is tape residue across every card back. When the company was called, the customer service rep put a supervisor on the phone. The supervisor verified with the "Submission Department" and they felt that if sent in for grading EX to NRMT would be expected.

I have been helping my son navigate the different auction houses. I told him that I did not know how Goldin grades. From this lot and response he has learned a lot.

I would message them directly on here, although the tape staining is visible in the pictures in the listing, the description should really match.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by martyp

The supervisor verified with the "Submission Department" and they felt that if sent in for grading EX to NRMT would be expected.

Specs of paper loss exist where the tape was removed. Would be lucky to get grades of 1.5 - 2. No chance any of those get EX-NM in their current state.

[martyp]

Originally Posted by Jcosta19

I would message them directly on here, although the tape staining is visible in the pictures in the listing, the description should really match.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I agree that the staining is easy to spot when you know that it is there. I did not look at the listing while my son was bidding. I do not know that sending them a message is of any value. On the phone they basically said to pound sand. What should have been asked on the phone is if we send 5 cards to SGC for grading and they do not come back a 5, will they reimburse us for the grading fees and the price of the lot.


Has anyone else had an issue with raw card grading from Goldin?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would try to contact Ken directly, best chance to resolve it rather than dealing with lower level folks. That said, looking at the auction, it's pretty obvious if you just hover over the back scans.

[Goldin Auctions]

Email Myesha@goldinauctions.com or by time you read this she or someone may have contacted you
That said if you have any emails from the office that fit the description of what you detailed in this thread please email them to ken@goldinauctions.com

BOARD
Please email ken@goldinauctions.com prior to posting any complaints or concerns
Saves Lot of time and frustration
As we are selling 50,000 + lots. Year no matter what, there will be a couple that are not perfectly satisfying to the customer, and I appreciate a chance to handle it before being called out
I have 65 employees today as opposed to 3 when I started so in all honesty I do NOT read every description and see every lot any more. That said, I prefer something is brought to my attention first . I think we have a 100% track record of taking care of any problems
ty

Ken goldin

[oldjudge]

Ken-way to step up and do the right thing!

[pclpads]

Considering the high prices you charge for cards on your site, maybe you should just STFU, stop whining and figure what comes around goes around.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by pclpads

Considering the high prices you charge for cards on your site, maybe you should just STFU, stop whining and figure what comes around goes around.

Zing!

I've never wished an overpriced dealer a bad deal, however I have smiled while reading these boards.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Goldin Auctions

Email Myesha@goldinauctions.com or by time you read this she or someone may have contacted you
That said if you have any emails from the office that fit the description of what you detailed in this thread please email them to ken@goldinauctions.com

BOARD
Please email ken@goldinauctions.com prior to posting any complaints or concerns
Saves Lot of time and frustration
As we are selling 50,000 + lots. Year no matter what, there will be a couple that are not perfectly satisfying to the customer, and I appreciate a chance to handle it before being called out
I have 65 employees today as opposed to 3 when I started so in all honesty I do NOT read every description and see every lot any more. That said, I prefer something is brought to my attention first . I think we have a 100% track record of taking care of any problems
ty

Ken goldin

Ken has always been great at resolving any/everything.

[Bpm0014]

“I did not look at the listing while my son was bidding”

There is your answer....

[ALBB]

#8 Report Post
Unread Today, 03:38 AM
pclpads pclpads is offlineDave Foster
Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: left coast
Posts: 906
Default We bought a raw lot from Goldin . . .
Considering the high prices you charge for cards on your site, maybe you should just STFU, stop whining and figure what comes around goes around.

HA HA

[edhans]

Nice that Ken seems to be trying to make things right. But no excuses for the gross incompetence of the person writing the description or for the "customer service" rep who apparently thinks that those are ex-mint cards. Seems like some additional investment in training is in order. No doubt Marty is partially at fault for inadequate attention to the auction detail and pictures, but I fail to see how his website prices can justify what happened to him.

[Directly]

Per the scans the front of the cards look as described---the backs are the grading killers! The backs are rather obvious but we all have missed issues on the back of cards being memorized by the front of the cards conditions, isn't the front of our cards what most collectors concentrate when viewing .--mistakes happen. I'm sure the AH will do their best to rectify!

[amsvtgcards]

Hello,

I am Marty's son and the one who purchased the lot. I realize that a part of my mistake was looking at the listing on my phone where it doesn't display as well as on a computer. This is a bad idea, and one I will not do for any future purchases. The listing was for 95+ cards with only 13 shown and the lot described as Overall EX to NM.

Ken has offered to issue a refund upon return of the cards and I will be speaking with Myesha to work this out.

I hope that some further training on writing descriptions or grading is done. I don't believe that anyone involved was acting out of any nefarious intentions. I just think that there was ignorance on both sides. I have purchased from many other auction houses and while grading is subjective from one to another, none had previously been as lacking in key details of their listings. I don't personally know any of the people involved or have an axe to grind against anyone. I am not promoting any auction houses over this one. I just know what my opinion is based upon my experience with customer support. I appreciate Ken stepping up to reply and get involved. I appreciate his offer to do a return. I anticipate that everything will be worked out.

[Jcosta19]

Glad it worked out as Ken clearly has customers in mind and I am not at all surprised that he offered a refund.

Mistakes happen.

That said I'm not sure what the point of rehashing what was already said, bashing the company again and using words like "ignorance." This was clearly a mistake on both ends (as you admitted) and you have been made whole and they have taken all of the loss here.

You should probably just say thank you, count yourself lucky and move on.

Just my opinion obviously.

J. C0$TA



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Agree with Justin. Man that's just bad form.

[Hankphenom]

"Ken Goldin, Ken Goldin, LOOK AT THEM CARDS that he holdin..." There it is, caveat emptor, you need to actually look at the pictures and judge for yourself. But it seems Ken's doing the right thing--and the smart thing for his business--in offering a full refund, so hopefully everything will work out OK and with some good lessons learned on all sides.

[RedsFan1941]

So sorry this happened to you, Marty. It would be impossible to resell those cards at your usual 75 to 150 percent markup.

[Orioles1954]

I’m the card writer for H&S and during any given auction cycle I’m responsible for at least 900 card lots an auction. That includes shoebox collections, sets, singles, graded cards, etc. Even after 15 years and developing an efficient process, it can be incredibly overwhelming, especially during publication “crunch” times. I strive for 100% accuracy on each and every lot and have checks to accomplish that. However, in the rare instance where a lot isn’t written correctly, always contact customer service and then the auction house owner first before going to social media. Whether an AH has hundreds of employees or 65 or 1, that should be requisite.

[Eric72]

Wow.

Hopefully, I'll get to the point someday where I can:

• Spend $1,000+ on a lot
• Not take the time to look at TWO pictures
• Whine about it on a public forum
• Get the auction house to give me a mulligan

Alternatively, maybe I can get to the point where I can run an auction and:

• Significantly misrepresent an item
• Have a CS rep double down on that misrepresentation
• Respond to public scrutiny by telling people to only send their complaints privately

I don't buy or sell often; however, I treat things seriously when doing so. Guess I've been doing things wrong all this time.

[troutbum97]

I was the leading bidder for this same exact lot in the early stages of the auction.

However, I backed off from future bids once I studied the photos.

I didn’t know that looking at photos was a difficult skill to develop.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by amsvtgcards

Hello,

I am Marty's son and the one who purchased the lot. I realize that a part of my mistake was looking at the listing on my phone where it doesn't display as well as on a computer. This is a bad idea, and one I will not do for any future purchases. The listing was for 95+ cards with only 13 shown and the lot described as Overall EX to NM.

Ken has offered to issue a refund upon return of the cards and I will be speaking with Myesha to work this out.

I hope that some further training on writing descriptions or grading is done. I don't believe that anyone involved was acting out of any nefarious intentions. I just think that there was ignorance on both sides. I have purchased from many other auction houses and while grading is subjective from one to another, none had previously been as lacking in key details of their listings. I don't personally know any of the people involved or have an axe to grind against anyone. I am not promoting any auction houses over this one. I just know what my opinion is based upon my experience with customer support. I appreciate Ken stepping up to reply and get involved. I appreciate his offer to do a return. I anticipate that everything will be worked out.

I think what you meant to say was "I'm stupid for buying a lot that shows 13 cards in VG condition and assuming that the other 82 cards would be in considerably better condition. This was all on me and I'm lucky that I whined on the internet and the AH is old school in it's thinking that "the customer is always right", even though this time the customer was not."

Doug "calling it as I see it" Goodman

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Wow.

Hopefully, I'll get to the point someday where I can:

• Spend $1,000+ on a lot
• Not take the time to look at TWO pictures
• Whine about it on a public forum
• Get the auction house to give me a mulligan

Alternatively, maybe I can get to the point where I can run an auction and:

• Significantly misrepresent an item
• Have a CS rep double down on that misrepresentation
• Respond to public scrutiny by telling people to only send their complaints privately

I don't buy or sell often; however, I treat things seriously when doing so. Guess I've been doing things wrong all this time.

I would argue that the AH did not "significantly misrepresent an item" due to high quality pictures showing the items.

I would also argue that the owner of the auction house giving all of us his private contact and asking us to reach out privately is good business on his part, and would be the polite thing to do on ours.

But whining on the internet is so much more fun these days.

Doug "but I could be wrong, but either way the buyer is completely at fault" Goodman

[ASF123]

So in your view, it’s perfectly fine for a seller to put whatever false, inaccurate or misleading information they want in the description, so long as they also include a photo?

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by troutbum97

I was the leading bidder for this same exact lot in the early stages of the auction.

However, I backed off from future bids once I studied the photos.

I didn’t know that looking at photos was a difficult skill to develop.

Right?!?!?

And I guess it’s doubly difficult before becoming the leading bidder early in the auction….

[troutbum97]

Originally Posted by Frankish

Right?!?!?

And I guess it’s doubly difficult before becoming the leading bidder early in the auction….

LMFAO. Hey, that 95 card lot was a STEAL at $200 !!

I’d still pay $200 for them.

[Gorditadogg]

Wow, some really wild comments, here is my take.

1. I expect professional sellers, including AHs and retailers, to know what they are selling and represent it fairly. Goldin messed up in describing those cards as EXMT. I don't think it exonerates him just because the pictures showed the tape.

2. By outing Goldin, Marty is setting a high bar for his own operation. I expect Marty's cards to have impeccable grading so he doesn't get called out too.

3. There had to be some communication issues between Marty's son and that supervisor at Goldin. Nobody could really have said those taped cards were EXMT, could they?

4. This is neither here nor there, but I've bought hundreds of cards from Marty and thought the prices were fair. (I just don't buy the ones that are overpriced.)





Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by troutbum97

LMFAO. Hey, that 95 card lot was a STEAL at $200 !!

I’d still pay $200 for them.

I would too!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ASF123

So in your view, it’s perfectly fine for a seller to put whatever false, inaccurate or misleading information they want in the description, so long as they also include a photo?

In my view, a buyer should use the information presented to them in an intelligent manner.

In this case, the cards were described as being in better condition than the very high quality photos showed, I would have believed my eyes, and chuckled at the description provided.

Had there been no pictures, the seller is at fault.

But there were pictures.

Very high quality pictures.

It is completely the fault of the buyer that he decided to glance at the pictures on his phone.

Speaking of "false, inaccurate or misleading information" :

[ASF123]

I’m completely with you on the BS that is PSA. But the unavoidable bottom line of your logic here is exactly what I posted above. Are you really ok with that?

I’m not saying the buyer doesn’t bear any responsibility - of course he does, and has admitted so. But to completely exonerate the seller is also unfair.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ASF123

So in your view, it’s perfectly fine for a seller to put whatever false, inaccurate or misleading information they want in the description, so long as they also include a photo?

Exactly what I'm thinking too. Pictures should match the description. Period. If it doesn't, the seller should assume full liability, not the buyer. If we're supposed to go by pictures alone, why even bother with a description?

I hear complaints that eBay seller's don't put qualifiers in the title. So, by the logic in this thread, a qualifier isn't needed in the title because it's shown in the scan, right?

The lack of morals in this thread is really eye opening.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Both sides were negligent but I think Ken handled the aftermath much better; Marty's son should have just said thank you and moved on and not taken another swipe.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I would argue that the AH did not "significantly misrepresent an item" due to high quality pictures showing the items...

So, if alterations are pictured but not disclosed, you're OK with that?

[slidekellyslide]

Marty’s son took responsibility for not viewing the pics on a computer and Ken took responsibility when he was alerted to it. His employees dropped the ball both in the description and how they handled the complaint. What Marty charges for cards has zero to do with this situation but of course Net54 seems to bring out the asshole in a lot of people who never miss their opportunity.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Marty’s son took responsibility for not viewing the pics on a computer and Ken took responsibility when he was alerted to it. His employees dropped the ball both in the description and how they handled the complaint. What Marty charges for cards has zero to do with this situation but of course Net54 seems to bring out the asshole in a lot of people who never miss their opportunity.

Well put.

[drcy]

The buyer should have examined the images closely.

The seller's written description should have been accurate. As far as refunds go, the written description has to be accurate.

I once cataloged a large photograph collection for a national auction house, so understand how mistakes can be made. Doing the cataloging under a time deadline, I calculated that I took an extra just one minute on the description that be another 8+ hours of work.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Eric72

So, if alterations are pictured but not disclosed, you're OK with that?

This conversation is in regards to items where the "alterations" are quite obvious in the pictures.

It sounds like you would like to start a different conversation.

I would like to talk about Alden's ice cream bars, but that would be similarly irrelevant.

Doug

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

...the "alterations" are quite obvious in the pictures...

Obvious to me. Seems like you think so, as well. Apparently not obvious to everyone, though.

With regard to your quotation marks, I have a question. Let's say writing had been removed instead of tape and it was just as obvious to some people. Would the word "alterations" have a different meaning in your mind?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I would like to talk about Alden's ice cream bars, but that would be similarly irrelevant.

Doug

Is that a regional "E" card candy issue?

This thread needs a card or two, and no I'm not showing the backs just in case they have tape residue.
_

[25801wv]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Is that a regional "E" card candy issue?

This thread needs a card or two, and no I'm not showing the backs just in case they have tape residue.
_

I love that E100!

[frankbmd]

Doug, I looked into Alden’s ice cream near me.
Bingo only a half mile away, but it all seems to be “organic”, which is a euphemism for overpriced methinks.
I’m passing on the Alden’s, but will heretofore list all my cards for sale as organic.



Thanks Doug

[bmattioli]

To me a good example of buyers remorse.. Been there but have never done that..

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Marty’s son took responsibility for not viewing the pics on a computer and Ken took responsibility when he was alerted to it. His employees dropped the ball both in the description and how they handled the complaint. What Marty charges for cards has zero to do with this situation but of course Net54 seems to bring out the asshole in a lot of people who never miss their opportunity.

+1
Best summation of this thread.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Doug, I looked into Alden’s ice cream near me.
Bingo only a half mile away, but it all seems to be “organic”, which is a euphemism for overpriced methinks.
I’m passing on the Alden’s, but will heretofore list all my cards for sale as organic.



Thanks Doug

Trust me. I have the diet of a 12 year old who doesn't have parents to tell me to eat my vegatables, and Aldens orange cream bars, or fudge bars, or root beer bars, etc, are the only thing in a Whole Foods that I have any interest in eating.

[Johnny630]

There is supposed to be No Crying In Baseball.....it’s funny that’s all I see in Card Collectors/Re-Sellers. Lol

[Oscar_Stanage]

Having good pictures does not exonerate someone for a bad description.
Money is being exchanged, everything must be accurate. Some of the people here need a higher bar.
This was an honest mistake and was correctly handled by the seller. If the seller (or another seller) handled it any other way I would not do any of my very significant business there.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Trust me. I have the diet of a 12 year old who doesn't have parents to tell me to eat my vegatables, and Aldens orange cream bars, or fudge bars, or root beer bars, etc, are the only thing in a Whole Foods that I have any interest in eating.

As a confirmed ice creamaniac, I must give you the benefit of my doubt. I shall venture into the world of Alden and report directly to you, or near the water cooler.

[jbsports33]

Really nice E cards, this discussion is why things can get complicated in our hobby. Always do you homework with buying or selling and try and be as professional as possible. Yes - it's just cardboard, but our time ,money and effort should matter both ways.

Jimmy

[mintacular]

I'm with "Team Marty" on this one. Has Goldin Auctions grown too big, too fast? I don't think you should offer a service (like auctioning a raw lot such as this) if you don't have the people to sell it correctly. Maybe they should stick to graded cards only?

This almost always happens with the big guys they get too big for their britches and lose quality control. As for Marty's prices, not really relevant but please tell me they aren't like Dean's! As for posting it on here, they called Goldin and were given a bad answer, not everyone knows how to email Ken directly so it's hard to blame them for going public.

Whether you like it or not, in sales the benefit of the doubt goes to the buyer so in this case clearly Goldin Auctions is at fault/responsible for a full refund and apology.