PSA - Grader Notes

[parkplace33]

This feature was talked about earlier this year, but it now looks like that Grader Notes will be included in PSA service levels Express or higher. PSA terms and conditions now reflect this:

https://www.psacard.com/termsandconditions

I am very excited about this new feature and what information the grader will provide. And of course, now that SGC is under CU, I hope SGC will also provide this feature in the future.

[Johnny630]

This is great news! Good Job PSA. Makes sense, especially in terms of marketing their higher-end service(Express and Up). People are gonna want to see the notes so they’re going to pay up for it. This is super smart even if they get fewer submissions but at the higher tier express levels, they still win with revenues.

Hopefully SGC follows.

[CardPadre]

Here's a link with a little more detail on it...

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...reater-clarity







.

[Beercan collector]

Step in the right direction .
Cannot wait for a member to post their experience with this

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Step in the right direction .
Cannot wait for a member to post their experience with this

I am curious if any will. This only benefits the submitter, so they can choose to release or not.

I am also curious if PSA will maintain these notes in case of crack outs, resubmissions. An excellent use of case of AI in the future?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

… This only benefits the submitter, so they can choose to release or not…

That’s disappointing. They should make these notes viewable on the cert verification site.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

That’s disappointing. They should make these notes viewable on the cert verification site.

Agree, but I don't think there is a snowballs chance of that happening.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Agree, but I don't think there is a snowballs chance of that happening.

Maybe if you buy a subscription to become a VIP member.

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[slinger23]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Step in the right direction .
Cannot wait for a member to post their experience with this

Not as cool or useful as you would think. T206 card was graded PSA VG 3. So, based on that its usually creasing of some sorts or corner tip wear.

Grader notes: Wear on all four corners.

One More. 1986 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan. graded PSA NM 7.

Grader notes: Front corners.

That was it.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by slinger23

Not as cool or useful as you would think....1986 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan. graded PSA NM 7.

Grader notes: Front corners.

That was it.

What is a front corner? Any clues?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

What is a front corner? Any clues?

I assume it is wear on the corners as seen on the front of the card.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

What is a front corner? Any clues?

I would imagine for an ‘86 Jordan that would be some white chipping in a corner that would only be visible on the front?

[investinrookies]

I’m unclear on a card that comes back altered? Does that mean it’s still authentic but just has had some sort of alteration to it? Or can it be deemed altered and not be authentic?


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[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by slinger23

Not as cool or useful as you would think. T206 card was graded PSA VG 3. So, based on that its usually creasing of some sorts or corner tip wear.

Grader notes: Wear on all four corners.

One More. 1986 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan. graded PSA NM 7.

Grader notes: Front corners.

That was it.

That is anticlimactic.

[Zan]

Originally Posted by slinger23

Not as cool or useful as you would think. T206 card was graded PSA VG 3. So, based on that its usually creasing of some sorts or corner tip wear.

Grader notes: Wear on all four corners.

One More. 1986 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan. graded PSA NM 7.

Grader notes: Front corners.

That was it.

lol

[slinger23]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

What is a front corner? Any clues?

Yes, there is some white on the front corners, but this is my point. I could see the corner tip wear and was not expecting more than an the grade it received, so the grader notes of "front corners" does not do add anything for me.

[Beercan collector]

The service this might provide would be more helpful on the head scratchers .
You send in a card that looks like a sure 8 comes back a 6 - just because the grader Is grumpy or whatever - now they’ll provide an explanation .
We’ve all heard it before - PSA stands for please submit again , maybe and it’s a big maybe this will help curb that

[Aug06]

When are the comments available? After grading is complete or when they show complete. I have a few cards out to PSA right now that are in the "grading" stage but am unsure where or when i would see any grader comments

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

The service this might provide would be more helpful on the head scratchers .
You send in a card that looks like a sure 8 comes back a 6 - just because the grader Is grumpy or whatever - now they’ll provide an explanation .
We’ve all heard it before - PSA stands for please submit again , maybe and it’s a big maybe this will help curb that

For the most part the Please Submit Again cards are the lower tier cards. Not always but usually the higher end cards are graded more accurately. It is the lower end stuff that is all over the place from my personal experience. My last Please Submit Again card came back as Questionable Authenticity the first time and the second time came back as a PSA 8. That was a card in the $1K range.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

For the most part the Please Submit Again cards are the lower tier cards. Not always but usually the higher end cards are graded more accurately. It is the lower end stuff that is all over the place from my personal experience. My last Please Submit Again card came back as Questionable Authenticity the first time and the second time came back as a PSA 8. That was a card in the $1K range.

you’re right my brain left out the fact the service is for higher end , I did send in a red Cobb I was hoping for six and it came back at four had to send it back and they bumped it to five - but back then it was like a $900 card

[slinger23]

Originally Posted by Aug06

When are the comments available? After grading is complete or when they show complete. I have a few cards out to PSA right now that are in the "grading" stage but am unsure where or when i would see any grader comments

Good question. I didn't actually see when the grader notes were available. I am guessing after QA or even Assembly. Both cards had just shipped and I had just updated the PSA app and found the graders note box. I will follow my next submission more closely to see when grader notes become available.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

just got grader notes on a 1956 Topps Mantle PSA 5

"Wear to all corners" didn't mention the light ding to the bottom edge.

Unless they get a little more detailed I don't see it moving the needle much. Maybe it will help explain the occasional mystery grade.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

just got grader notes on a 1956 Topps Mantle PSA 5

"Wear to all corners" didn't mention the light ding to the bottom edge.

Unless they get a little more detailed I don't see it moving the needle much. Maybe it will help explain the occasional mystery grade.

thanky

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

I’m unclear on a card that comes back altered? Does that mean it’s still authentic but just has had some sort of alteration to it? Or can it be deemed altered and not be authentic?

No, cards that PSA deems counterfeit cannot get authentic/altered slabs.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by swarmee

No, cards that PSA deems counterfeit cannot get authentic/altered slabs.

So this card came back labeled altered with “do not holder” below so your saying it’s authentic but altered?


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[perezfan]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

That is anticlimactic.

What else would one expect? The PSA grader making minimum wage in California can walk into any fast-food restaurant and make 3 bucks more per hour for flipping burgers. Anyone hoping to gain deep insights from this empty publicity stunt will be severely disappointed.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Aug06

When are the comments available? After grading is complete or when they show complete. I have a few cards out to PSA right now that are in the "grading" stage but am unsure where or when i would see any grader comments

From an email I received it was for Express level and higher after June 23rd…


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[TiffanyCards]

This should just be the beginning. When they rolled out images of cards, they also rolled it out slow before making it automatically included for all cards.

My hope is that the notes will be better detailed. That way when images are compared that show the card to be altered, there will be notes that support the images. This should eliminate those that continue to excuse these visible before/after changes as scanner settings, image cherry picking, or even image photoshopping.


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[Johnny630]

I would venture to say a good bit of AI (augmented grading) is being used by PSA during this process. So cool :-)

[jchcollins]

Fairly useless I would imagine if only the submitter can see the notes. What’s the point? I guess it’s naive to think that PSA would implement anything open that would benefit many collectors…


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[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Fairly useless I would imagine if only the submitter can see the notes. What’s the point? I guess it’s naive to think that PSA would implement anything open that would benefit many collectors…


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Yes, they are in it for themselves.... not the collector. If that isn't clear by now, any further discussion is pointless.

There is absolutely no reason to make the "notes" visible only to the submitter. But hey... you still get the obscene wait times, the high prices, the erratic grading, the scrunched up baggies, diagonal cards within their slabs, and the lack of any meaningful customer service or communication.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by perezfan

There is absolutely no reason to make the "notes" visible only to the submitter.

Sad also it seems like the concept of “Grader Notes” is really more “whatever the hell the grader feels like putting” instead of a more formal grade report giving real reasons as to why the card graded what it did.


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[swarmee]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

So this card came back labeled altered with “do not holder” below so your saying it’s authentic but altered?

Yes, if they were supposed to be grading the card. In order for an altered card to get slabbed, you have to notify them on the submission form that "IF CARD DOES NOT ACHIEVE NUMBER GRADE, PLEASE SLAB AS AUTHENTIC or AUTHENTIC ALTERED"

[tjisonline]

My hope is that the notes will be better detailed. That way when images are compared that show the card to be altered, there will be notes that support the images. This should eliminate those that continue to ignore (& refuse to improve their understanding of) technology for finding altered cards.

[Leon]

+1 This AI technology might help with that a lot. I like the Notes...we'll see how it goes.

Originally Posted by tjisonline

My hope is that the notes will be better detailed. That way when images are compared that show the card to be altered, there will be notes that support the images. This should eliminate those that continue to ignore (& refuse to improve their understanding of) technology for finding altered cards.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1 This AI technology might help with that a lot. I like the Notes...we'll see how it goes.

1a) 100%. I am surprised that PSA's tech company purchase from a few year's back isn't being used.

1b) When I say, it isn't being used, it's an educated guess based on some recent PSA grading results (inconsistency). would love to see the internal grader notes if the 2 examples below
example 1 = a popular 60s topps card went from an undergraded "5" to "min size note met" to "6". all psa. another popular mid-60s card went from an undergraded "psa 6" to "psa 8" jeez. come on. these 2 cards were all recent subs also.

1c) i also think this tech can help us w/ trimmed cards in holders of all decades. so many high profile people in the hobby like to post higher grade vintage pc cards from their collection and honestly (in MY OPINION), a good 50% of them appear trimmed. it's a total joke. images can be digitally measured. side note: 90% of these cards i'm typing about are in older PSA cert slabs.

2. getting back to scanned images. we need some sort of standard. i bought a 33 goudey gehrig this yr. the auction house's scanned image and PSA differ greatly. when i saw both sets of pics initially, i thought it had paper loss in 2-3 areas. turns out, has none.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by TiffanyCards

This should just be the beginning. When they rolled out images of cards, they also rolled it out slow before making it automatically included for all cards.

My hope is that the notes will be better detailed. That way when images are compared that show the card to be altered, there will be notes that support the images. This should eliminate those that continue to excuse these visible before/after changes as scanner settings, image cherry picking, or even image photoshopping.


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The reason you get criticized for posting comparisons of cards using drastically different scanner settings and pretend like those images are reflective of some sort of imaginary "work" that was done to the cards is because you literally do exactly that. Graders notes aren't going to help you.

Serious question for you though... Do you even own a single vintage card?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would venture to say a good bit of AI (augmented grading) is being used by PSA during this process. So cool :-)

I can assure you they are not.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

My hope is that the notes will be better detailed. That way when images are compared that show the card to be altered, there will be notes that support the images. This should eliminate those that continue to ignore (& refuse to improve their understanding of) technology for finding altered cards.

The problem though is that they're still incompetent. I regularly find unaltered cards in authentic holders. The notes are useless when the grader is just plain wrong.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The problem though is that they're still incompetent. I regularly find unaltered cards in authentic holders. The notes are useless when the grader is just plain wrong.

I mean, you consider cleaning cards not an alteration so are the cards you're referring to cleaned and detected as altered?

Of course if you send in a cleaned card and it comes back as altered you would think the grade is plain wrong.

So it's confusing if your talking about truly untampered cards (like some hand cut/obscure cards psa will give an A because they do zero research) or just what you personally deem as unaltered.

[TiffanyCards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The reason you get criticized for posting comparisons of cards using drastically different scanner settings and pretend like those images are reflective of some sort of imaginary "work" that was done to the cards is because you literally do exactly that. Graders notes aren't going to help you.

Serious question for you though... Do you even own a single vintage card?

It would be interesting to be able to see the grader notes on this card. The images clearly show a stain on the top right in the before and there does not appear to be a stain on the after photo. Please note that the after photo was adjust by you to match the settings of the before and posted in a previous thread. Where did the stain go?? Either the stain never existed or it magically disappeared. If we had the graders notes, then we would have written evidence to support the visual evidence.

I’m surprised that PSA and others will use photo matching to authenticate items since, as you claim, photo matching is “reflective of some sort of imaginary work.” I’m also curious as to why PSA would develop photo matching technology, like Genamint, to help track and detect altered cards. It was also interesting that PSA deactivated Kurt’s Card Care submission after being presented with before and after photos.

It seems evident to me that using before and after images is a valid and reliable way to detect and determine if an alteration has been made on a card.

Yes, I own vintage cards.

I’m not here to argue or upset you. Therefore, this will be my only response to you on this thread. Take care.



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[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I mean, you consider cleaning cards not an alteration so are the cards you're referring to cleaned and detected as altered?

Of course if you send in a cleaned card and it comes back as altered you would think the grade is plain wrong.

So it's confusing if your talking about truly untampered cards (like some hand cut/obscure cards psa will give an A because they do zero research) or just what you personally deem as unaltered.

I'm talking about cards that are in Authentic Altered holders that were clearly graded by an amateur who had no clue what they were looking at. Cards that were immediately cracked out of the holders and sent directly back to the same grading company that deemed them to be "altered" before but now give them numeric grades. Cards that I did not even clean at all.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by TiffanyCards

It would be interesting to be able to see the grader notes on this card. The images clearly show a stain on the top right in the before and there does not appear to be a stain on the after photo. Please note that the after photo was adjust by you to match the settings of the before and posted in a previous thread. Where did the stain go?? Either the stain never existed or it magically disappeared. If we had the graders notes, then we would have written evidence to support the visual evidence.

I’m surprised that PSA and others will use photo matching to authenticate items since, as you claim, photo matching is “reflective of some sort of imaginary work.” I’m also curious as to why PSA would develop photo matching technology, like Genamint, to help track and detect altered cards. It was also interesting that PSA deactivated Kurt’s Card Care submission after being presented with before and after photos.

It seems evident to me that using before and after images is a valid and reliable way to detect and determine if an alteration has been made on a card.

Yes, I own vintage cards.

I’m not here to argue or upset you. Therefore, this will be my only response to you on this thread. Take care.

Every opportunity you can get to post your bullshit in any thread you think PSA will read LOL. Never give up on your dreams! One day, they will care about you.

Perhaps worth noting (you clearly seem to have overlooked it) is the fact that despite PSA making an effort to clarify their "no grade/alterations" definitions, at no point anywhere in those definitions will you find anything at all about a card being soaked in water as being "altered". Why do you think that is? Oh, ya, BECAUSE IT'S A COMPLETELY STANDARD PRACTICE IN THIS HOBBY AND HAS BEEN FOR 100 YEARS. THEY ALLOW IT. Keep crying about it though.

[Leon]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. Try to remain calm.

If it's only water that is the cleaning solution, then, no the card shouldn't be graded only as AUT, assuming no other issues. Everyone knows that has been allowed forever. (by most hobbyists)

Originally Posted by Snowman

Every opportunity you can get to post your bullshit in any thread you think PSA will read LOL. Never give up on your dreams! One day, they will care about you.

Perhaps worth noting (you clearly seem to have overlooked it) is the fact that despite PSA making an effort to clarify their "no grade/alterations" definitions, at no point anywhere in those definitions will you find anything at all about a card being soaked in water as being "altered". Why do you think that is? Oh, ya, BECAUSE IT'S A COMPLETELY STANDARD PRACTICE IN THIS HOBBY AND HAS BEEN FOR 100 YEARS. THEY ALLOW IT. Keep crying about it though.