T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B460Chance.jpg



Hi Rob

It's futile to try and understood why PSA grades AB 460 cards as "trimmed". And DITTO for SGC....when I acquired this Jennings card (circa 2012)
it had been graded an "A". And, that was just fine with me, as it was A-ffordable.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sHandx50_1.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sHand50xbx.jpg




I cracked it open and submitted it back to SGC, and this time it came back a "60". So, both of these two TPG's really don't know how to grade
these AB 460 cards.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ningsSGC60.jpg





Incidentally,

I just returned home from the National. The Chicago Show is always absolutely the best. I had a good Show, sold a lot of cards, including several
T206 Red HINDU cards.

However, the highlight of the Show for me was all you Net54 guys who stopped by to have some really interesting T206 discussions.

Thanks, Guys


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lCYoung12x.jpg



At the National, five Net54 "readers" (these guys don't post) visited with me at my booth and we had some interesting conversations regarding their T206 collections.

Four of these guys strictly collect UNGRADED T206's.

One collects only GRADED.

And a regular Net54er, Chris R, whose 520-card set is a combination of GRADED and UNGRADED.


So, here is the latest tally...…

We now have 9 guys whose T206 cards are strictly UNGRADED.

Three who collect only GRADED T206's.

Four whose collections are a mixture of both GRADED and UNGRADED T206's.

And, one that is too early to tell (Hi Leon).


Although this is a small informal survey; nevertheless, it somewhat reflects a trend. Perhaps, more T206 collectors will chime in here with their Show-n-Tell stories.



TED Z
.

Hi Ted,
Not sure if I was included in the tally on how T206’s are collected, but my 520 set is a combination of graded and raw. The graded cards were bought that way and left in the slabs.

Thank you for taking the time to talk at The National. The things I look forward to the most at The National are catching up with fellow collectors and meeting new ones.

Take care,
Chris

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Chris

You were included. I have modified my Post #803 to mention your specific input. It's always great "Talkin' T206's" with you.


TED Z
.

Hi Ted...Back to the Cycle discussion for an update...I added a Shaw. The Lavender to complete the set will be very difficult.

Attachment 361615

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Rich

Congratulations on nearing completion with your Providence guys with CYCLE 350 backs.

Are you close to completing the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 run with the Providence cards ?


TED Z
.

Thanks, Ted. No, the ABs have proven more difficult. I think I've got Hoffman, Lavender, and Phelan. The only other I've seen was Moran but I was too slow to nab it.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Rich

I have a number of AMERICAN BEAUTY 350's. When I get home tonite, I'll sort thru them looking for any of the other five Providence players ?


TED Z
.

It's so interesting all the different ways everyone collects this set, including if they are graded or not. Seeing that this thread is already 800+ posts, I thought it would be fun to go back and read the first page. I found one of my posts from a little over 2 years ago. It's interesting to see how my numbers have changed since then. I even believed that a certain "No Print" card existed even though no one had ever seen one and I actually ended up finding it. Thanks Ted for starting this thread and thanks to everyone that contributes to it.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Ron

Interesting story, thanks for posting it. And, pardon me if I take some liberty in augmenting this comment of your's......"I found it. Hooks Wiltse Pitching PSA 2 with a blurry scan
of the Piedmont 350-460 back. Even with the blurry scan, I could tell the factory line was longer (factory 42) than all the other Piedmont backs. So I hit the Buy It Now for $44.95
and have been hooked".….. :)

Speaking about the Wiltse (pitching) card, how many of you T206 "dudes" are aware that this card has a unique feature ? The Wiltse (pitching) card's caption is unique in that it's
missing a DOT after the Y in "N. Y."
I have checked out my Wiltse cards [AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, PIEDMONT 350-460, SOVEREIGN 350, SWEET CAPORAL 350 (Factory #30) and UZIT]….the DOT is omitted on all of
them. Therefore, I don't think we can call this a "variation". I have not seen this type of DOT omission on any other T206 captons with "N. Y."


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITWiltse50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TWiltse50b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Caption50x.jpg



TED Z
.

Hi Ted, Hooked lol :D yup! I have 7 different Wiltse backs and will check them in a few weeks when I have the cards out again. It would be interesting to find one.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Ron

This Wiltse card was printed with 19 (or 20 ) different T206 backs. I have checked-out 17 cards of Wiltse with as many as 17 different T-brands. And all 17
of these Wiltse's are missing the DOT following the "Y" on the front.
And this is the way it should be, as we have hypothesized that the Fronts were first pre-printed on sheets which were hung up to dry. Then, as the various
Tobacco Factories ordered cards, American Lithographic printed the respective brands on the Backs of the T206's. And shipped to their respective Factories.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Ron

I think the "NoPrint" you are referring to is the Lajoie with SWEET CAP 350-460, Fac. #30. A great find on your part.

And thanks for the kind words....plus all the very meaningful stuff you have posted in this thread these past 2 years.



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C460Fac30b.jpg


TED Z
.

Hi Ted, yes the Lajoie. Has another one been found that I'm not aware of? I actually stopped looking after I found mine.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Ron,

Sorry for the delayed response to your question.

It's my understanding that David Hall's master set includes all 28 - SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #30 "no-print" cards. So, yes another Lajoie exists.


TED Z
.

Just curious as to how many T206 collectors actually spend a lot of their time looking for new print group patterns? I'm always trying to find patterns and cards that don't fit the patterns. Just like today, I started with a blank sheet and wanted to find anything odd about Sweet Caporal Factory 25's. Many probably start at the beginning but I always start in the middle. I start with 350's and then look at what's missing from the 150's and the 460's. I tend to find more patterns by doing it this way. Interestingly, I found that 12 cards were missing from print group 4. After I listed them together, the list looked very familiar. It was the same cards as the 12 that are difficult in Old Mill's and Easier in Hindu's. Although many of us already know about these 12 cards, it's still interesting to start with a blank page and discover how we all got to where we are currently. There are 457 different front Sweet Caporal Factory 25's out of 524 cards.

Is one of the 12 Merkle?

Crandall, Doc (Portrait With Cap)
DeVore, Josh
Duffy, Hugh
Ford, Russ
Gandil, Chick
Geyer, Rube
Hummel, John
McGraw, John (Glove At Hip)
Pfeffer, Francis
Sheckard, Jimmy (Glove Showing)
Tannehill, Lee (Tannehill On Front)
Wheat, Zack

Oh, you mean the ones that are easier to find with the Red Hindu backs. Okay, I get it now.

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Sean

I'm surprised....for you know Merkle is not one of Exclusive 12 guys in the 460-only Series.

Your amazing Merkle run does NOT have a red HINDU card. Nor will it ever.....since the only
subjects in the 460-only Series printed with red HINDU backs are the Exclusive 12 subjects.

TED Z
.

Wether your just getting started with collecting T206's or you've been collecting for many years, we can all agree that there are many ways to collect the Monster. Many collectors don't like T206's because they are not rare. Sorry but it's true. There are always many to choose from when making a purchase. There are probably between 100 and 200 complete 520 sets in collections. These are sets with any advertisement backs but usually Piedmont and Sweet Caporal which are most common.

So here's where it gets interesting. A 520 card set can go from common to difficult just by eliminating Piedmont and Sweet Caporal backs and chasing the more difficult backs. There may be a few of these specialty sets already completed and a small group of other collectors currently working on them.

Now, say you want to go from difficult to extremely rare. Lets say you eliminate Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, and Sovereign. Well 520 cards is not possible. There are 36 cards that would be missing from your set according to T206resourse. There are also 88 cards where Hindu Brown is your only choice. Here is the list of the missing 36 cards. Maybe some of these cards can be found and removed from this list.

Southern League
Jack Bastian
Bill Hart
Jimmy Hart
Frank King
Harry Lentz
Molly Miller
Al Orth
Charles Seitz
Carlos Smith
Dolly Stark
Tony Thebo
Foley White

Polar Bear Only
Ray Demmitt St. Louis
Bill O'Hara St. Louis

EPDG Possible but not confirmed
George Brown Washington
Ty Cobb Bat On Shoulder
Ty Cobb Portrait - Green
Wid Conroy Fielding
Sam Crawford Throwing
Dode Criss
Bill Dahlen Brooklyn
Jiggs Donohue
Kid Elberfeld Portrait - Washington
Ed Hahn
Fred Jacklitsch
Red Kleinow NY With Bat
John McGraw Finger In Air
Danny Murphy Throwing
Simon Nicholls Hands On Knees
Harry Niles
Rube Oldring Fielding
Frank Smith Chicago - F. Smith
Jake Stahl No Glove Shows
Rube Waddell Throwing
Jimmy Williams

Tolstoi Possible but not confirmed
Bill O'Hara New York

So bottom line, the question is, how common are T206's? The answer: It all depends on how you collect them. For those who want to know my current numbers, here they are.

No Piedmont or Sweet Caporal 494/520
No Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, or Sovereign 264/484

Great post by Ron. There are so many different ways to parse the set. I'll post my progress...

No Piedmont or Sweet Caporal 431/520
No Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, or Sovereign 184/484

I think it's also worth noting removing PB/OM/Sov from the set eliminates some of the best cards in the set! Green Cobb and Bat on, Waddell throwing, and Elberfeld.

Plus, there are a whole host of cards where a Sovereign 150 is actually more difficult than a Hindu. On those, I actually prefer a Sov150 over the Hindu.

Also, I've built this from the top to the bottom. So my first goal was tackling the expensive and difficult HOF/variations, and now I'm on the hunt for the various commons I need.

REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards..
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpg


In conversations throughout the years with collectors who own (or have owned) the T206 Honus Wagner card, it's interesting to find out that a fair number of these cards
have originated from the NY - Long Island area.
The majority of the Wagner cards are SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #25. Also, some of them are SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30. And, a handful are PIEDMONT 150.
Conventional thinking is that none of the PIEDMONT Wagner's were inserted in Cigarette packs. Indeed, the PSA Wagner was cut from an uncut sheet (or panel). I bring
up this subject because I have a theory..... OH NO ! …..Another theory by Ted Z :)

Consider this....Joseph Palmer Knapp, the founder of the American Lithographic Company (ALC), had a vacation home in Suffolk County, Long Island (NY). Therefore, I'm
suggesting...when Wagner forced ATC to discontinue printing his image, ALC was in the process of printing up many 150 Series cards (which included Wagner and Plank).
So what happened to all the Wagner cards (approx. 75 - 90 exist) ? Were they dis-card-ed (excuse the pun) by ALC ? Or perhaps, Mr. Knapp took a bunch of them out to
Long Island and handed them out to his children, and their friends or neighbors. If so, these Wagner's eventually found they way into NY residents' collections.

Let's hear of your experiences, or thoughts, regarding the T206 Wagner card ?


http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn..._12350_1_1.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...em_12350_2.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...m022705A_1.jpg


TED Z
.

Ted, I took a quick look at the psa pop report...

Cy Young port...sc 150/25.....6
Bobby Wallace...sc 150/25.....5
Honus Wagner...sc 150/25.....4

Young sc 150/30 .... 42
Wallace sc 150/30.... 27
Wagner sc 150/30.... 2

It's not a scientific sample, but it's interesting that the 2 random hofers I picked compare almost equally for factory 25, but not factory 30.

Ted, that's an interesting thought. If it's true, then finding a Wagner in a pack would have been even more difficult than thought. I'm still saving up for a Wagner of my own. :rolleyes: Time to go door to door in Long Island.

Ted, just curious, what premium (if any), do you place on a Piedmont-backed Wagner or Plank vs the more common Sweet Caporal backs? When I say “premium”, I mean in a general sense- value, prestige, etc. How many Piedmont Wagners and Planks are there?

Or better General question - do you think the back “matters” when it comes to Wagner and Plank, and if so, how much so with the much rarer Piedmont (which probably all should be A) vs Sweet Cap?

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards
 

Hi Ryan

Generally speaking....I don't think most T206 collectors care which back is on a Wagner or Plank, they are just happy to get one (or both) of these cards.

Now, "dudes" like me would prefer to have the PIEDMONT version of these two T206 cards (so, I can complete my all - PIEDMONT set).

Besides, the big $$$$$$ associated with these two T206's is way above my "pay-grade".

I'm content with my SWEET CAP 150, Factory #30 Eddie Plank (graded "A").

"A" for Awesome, and Affordable :)



TED Z
.

I do remember a few years back, that a Plank Piedmont was graded with a numerical grade. I questioned then if it should have been graded that way. As far as what I'd prefer when building a set, I'd like a Factory 25 over a Factory 30.

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards..
 

Ron

About 8 (or so) years ago there was a PIEDMONT 150 Plank graded by SGC. I think they graded it SGC 70.

Like you, I question the validity of that grade on that Plank.


TED Z
.

The Piedmont Plank SGC 70 went for $330K in 2012.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_119.html

That's the one I remember. Wow, 7.5 years ago. Didn't seem that long ago. I found the two original posts to that particular Piedmont Plank. Interesting trip back in time but after reading them again, sadly not much has changed in the hobby.

Dan Mckee 03/20/2012 Post http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=149071

Ted Zanidakis 03/27/2012 Follow-up Post http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=149346

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


There is no predicting which T206 subjects will be found with no Tobacco advertisement printed on their back. Blank-Back (B-B) T206's are simply a random phenomena.

Needless to say, B-B T206 cards are highly sought after, and big $$$$ are usually paid to acquire these cards.

So, let us see how many Blank-Back (B-B) T206's we can display here. And, perhaps some one will post a B-B HOFer. I have yet to see such a T206. Well, I will start this
show with my B-B......


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yBlankBack.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BlankBackb.jpg


Thanks to Dan McKee for giving me a nice deal on this card.


TED Z
.

Here are my 3 blank-backs:

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....T206 BLANK-BACKS....if you have them, post them here
 

Three blank-back HOFer's….great stuff, Ryan. Thanks for posting them.


TED Z
.

Here are mine, I sold Ellam a few years ago, and have since had the others graded.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...pictureid=1876

Spoke with PSA recently & asked them about slabbing blank backs, and heard back "We have never processed proofs and the biggest reason is the there are two known varieties that can occur for T206. There are blank back & proofs that are known to hobbyist. There is no definitive way to discern between both of those situations accurately, thus we have never processed both types of items."

Thought that was strange.

Here's my two:

That's surprising that PSA would say that. My understanding is if the front looks identical to a normal card, then it's a blank back. If it includes crop marks and/or missing the name, then it's a proof. Seems simple to me.

agree with you, but they were (for now) firm on their stance.

Bizarre response from PSA. Proofs are blank backed and always have crop marks (for the precious alignment of the artwork, hence Proofs typically have very crisp and bold images, as every color pass is aligned perfectly). Some have the player name/team (type 2), and some do not (type 1, often having a slight artwork change from the original).

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg

Hey Sean,
Six months ago, you asked if there is another Mullaney with a "$trange" back. Well, yes there is....however, this one is blank :)


https://i.imgur.com/SVyN85t.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yBlankBack.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BlankBackb.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


Here's my Schulte Blank-Back card....although SGC refused to label it as such. When it's out of the plastic, it's obvious that this card is NOT "skinned" (but has a spot
of paper loss in the upper left corner).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackSchulte.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ckSchulteB.jpg



TED Z
.

here's my last remaining Blank. It's actually not blank, but it doesn't have an ad on the back. And I still can't straighten them out. :(

Attachment 366563

Attachment 366564

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

Neat stuff, thanks for sharing your Blank-Back T206's with us.....Ryan, Steve, Jeff, Mike & Sean.

Perhaps, we will see some more of these B-B T206 cards.

They appear randomly. There is no way of predicting which ones will come out of the woodwork.

TED Z
.

My blank back
 

T206 Jake Beckley - this is part of my t206 HOF back run

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg



And, here is one more Blank-Back to add to the mix. I don't own this card any more, since I traded it to Chris and Kristin Buckler (Louisville collectors).



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...manPROOFbb.jpg


Well, this T206 proof raises the tally to 19 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a 20th B-B posted.



TED Z
.

BB Snoddy
 

Here is my BB snoddy, cool card! sorry for the bad pic, lost my key to my display cabinet (high security) :-)

Nice BB's fellas!

Cliff

Attachment 367743

Dougherty Blank Back
 

Here's the only one that I own. Still waiting for the guys at T206Resource.com to add it to their confirmed list... :confused:

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...tsy-arm-in-air

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

Neat stuff, thanks for sharing your Blank-Back T206's with us....David, Cliff, and Tom.


The tally is up to 21 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a some more B-B posted.


TED Z
.

Blank back
 

Here's MY only blank backAttachment 368421

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 960.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

Hi John

Thanks for posting Steinfeldt..….the batting pose of him is one of my favorite T206's.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


While this 1921 card of Smoky Joe Wood is obviously not a T206, it is a Blank-Back card. So, I posted it here because it's a mystery why he was not included in the T206 set.
He started pitching for Boston (AL) in 1908. He Won 11, lost 7 in 1909 with an ERA = 2.18

American Lithographic could have featured Smoky Joe in their 460 Series (issued in early 1911), as they did with these 5 rookies, who started their careers in 1910:
Josh Devore
Russ Ford
Chick Gandil
Rube Geyer
Zach Wheat


Anyone here have any theories as to why Smoky Joe is not in the T206 set (and, for that matter not in the T205 set, which certain series were issued late in the Fall of 1911) ?
I would like to hear them.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...okyJoeWood.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


I cannot decide which of these three are my favorite backs; therefore, I'll start this show with examples of all three...…

AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) and UZIT backs were printed concurrently. Research indicates that they were issued circa Jan-Feb 1911. I believe the AB 460 and the UZIT
cards were in the last production runs of the T206 set.
I equate them to the 1952 TOPPS and 1949 BOWMAN High number's series (which were issued in the Fall of their respective years). Short-printed, and quite difficult to find.
And this is certainly very true for the AB 460 and UZIT T206 cards.


My 14-year adventure is nearly complete, I have 72 of the 74 subjects printed with the AB 460 back

. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sHand50xbx.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ffAB460x50.jpg




McGraw is the favorite of my UZIT cards, since this card is unique (till some day a 2nd one is discovered)

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg




My 1910 COUPON run includes the T206 six Super-Prints....plus 7 other T206 subjects. Willett is my nicest example

. . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Willett25b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...NWillett25.jpg



OK, let's see which T206 back(s) are your favorite. And, tell us what in particular appeals to you about the back....or whatever ?


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


I received an email from a new member inquiring about the "Super-Prints" which I referred to in my above post.

OK, most of you T206 enthusiasts are quite familiar with this term. For those who are new to this T206 game pictured below are the 6 super-print subjects. The significance
of these 6 subjects were identified by Scot Reader in his excellent research which he documented in his book...."Inside T206". The super-prints are more available than any
other T206's since these cards were printed with more tobacco brands. Furthermore, it is evident in many cases that these 6 subjects were Double-Printed on T206 sheets.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uponChance.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sedkcap38x.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edCobb75xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onChanceBx.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...apChase50b.jpg



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...everschase.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...schase25xb.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


Well, since there haven't been any responses to this topic at this point, I'll give this thread a friendly bump by noting my 4th favorite T206 back....BROAD LEAF 350 (BL 350).
And, my favorite guy with a BL 350 back is Mr. Chase.

Theoretically, there were 190 BL 350 cards printed by American Lithographic. To date, 177 subjects have been confirmed with the BL 350 back. This is indeed a difficult T206
back to find. I expect that the remaining 13 unaccounted for guys will eventually being discovered.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uplcate75x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxCOxCYx25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg


TED Z
.

Great posts, Ted. Except I don't think everyone in the hobby is completely on board with the Coupons being T206, as they are T213s. :) Otherwise, thanks for sharing.
And I am very much looking forward to March.....We can argue about this in person! And we will have to see where Danny lands on this issue. Should be fun.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


Here is my favorite T206 Minor League guy, Frank Delehanty, who is not only pictured with a BROAD LEAF 350 (BL 350) back, but my complete A - B - C - D array.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ntyABCDx50.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyABCDx50b.jpg


Speaking about the Minor League guys with the BL 350 back, here is their Checklist. (80 subjects). Note that 5 subjects are....Not yet confirmed (Nyc)

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Armbruster
Arndt
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beckley
Blackburne
Brain
Brashear ………...(Nyc)
Burchell
Burke
Butler
Carr ………………….(Nyc)
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Clancy
Clark

Clymer
Congalton
Cravath
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dorner
Downs
Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan
Freeman
Ganzel
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson

Kelley
Kisinger
Kruger
Lattimore
Lavender
Malarkey
Maloney
McGann …………...(Nyc)
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
Merritt
Milligan
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Providence))
Nattress
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill

Phelan
Pickering ………….(Nyc)
Poland
Quillen
Randall
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly …….……..(Nyc)
Schreck
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Strang
Taylor
Thielmann
White (Buffalo)
Wright
Irv Young


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


I would be remiss, if I have not provided a Checklist for the Major League subjects with the BROAD LEAF 350 backs.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0blueChase.jpg


110 Major League subjects were printed with the BROAD LEAF 350 back.

Note that 8 subjects are.... Not yet confirmed (Nyc)

Abstein
Arellanes
Atz …………………….….…..…..(Nyc)
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Becker
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Bliss
Bresnahan (bat
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Carrigan
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Charles
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap) ……….….(Nyc)
Cobb (portrait- red) ….....(Nyc)

Eddie Collins
Cree
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downey (fielding)
Dubuc
Joe Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly ………..…………..…..(Nyc)
Egan
Engle
Evers (yellow sky)
Ferguson …………………….....(Nyc)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)

Graham (St Louis)
Hartsel
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte

Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mathewson (dark cap) …...(Nyc)
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McIntyre (Detroit)
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cinci)
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)

Myers (fielding)
Oakes
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Purtell
Quinn
Raymond
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Schmidt (portrait) ….……...(Nyc)
Scott
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens ……………..…….…..(Nyc)
Street (portrait)

Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett (bat)
Wilson
Zimmerman


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg



Ok, since we are not getting any BROAD LEAF 350 responses here, perhaps let's try for the for "rarest of the rare"....how's about showing off your BROAD LEAF 460 cards.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eaf460back.jpg Theoretically, American Lithographic printed 35 subjects with the BROAD LEAF 460 back. As of today, 28 of these T206's are confirmed.

These 7 unconfirmed cards remain.

Ames (hands above head)
Bender (no trees)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Magee (bat)


It would be great see one (or 2) these T206's displayed here. Earlier this year Donlin (batting) was discovered. So, there is hope that more (if not all) of these 7 subjects will
eventually be found with BROAD LEAF 460 backs..


TED Z
.

Designs
 

Personally, I like the Uzit's design best. Then EPDG.....then maybe Red Hindu....or Carolina Brights. Everyone has their own faves which is great.
I did a back run years ago and almost completed it before giving up on it. :o

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Hi Leon

We think alike......UZIT is my favorite, too.. For two reasons BLUE is my favorite color, and the UZIT cards were printed in the last production runs of the T206's (circa Feb 1911).

This sort of reminds me of collecting 1952 TOPPS Hi # cards (last-printed & short-printed).

I'm curious, which T206 back run did you do ?




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg


TED Z
.

My favorites are the one's I have the least of lol :D My favorite design is Carolina Brights and my favorite back color is Red Hindu. Since I collect all front/back combinations, technically I collect runs of both. Collecting the Polar Bear back run was the most enjoyable.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Hi Ron

I agree with you, the Red HINDU back is a rich looking color.

A patriotic display of backs......

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUx50b.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BlankBackb.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yBlankBack.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...UZITxSGC30.jpg




Ron
I may have asked you this before.....what 5 subjects do you need to complete your POLAR BEAR run ?



TED Z
.

Hi Ted, here are the 5 I'm missing. Just waiting for the right prices to come around.

Cobb, Ty (Portrait - Red)
Johnson, Walter (Glove At Chest)
O'Hara, Bill (St. Louis)
Wheat, Zack
Young, Cy (With Glove)

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Hi Ron

As of now, I cannot help you with the POLAR BEAR cards.

What are the two SOVEREIGN 460 cards you need ?
My guess is the red Cobb is one of them.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.


TED Z
.

Hi Ted. Yes, the red Cobb and the other is Frank Chance Yellow Portrait. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Here’s a Broadleaf 460 for you Ted

Steven, that would be a great card if it wasn’t so OC ;)

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Steven

T206's do not get too much scarcer than this....thanks for posting your Walter Johnson.


TED Z
.

amazing :)

It’s enroute to Moser as we speak so look out for a “fresh to the hobby” PSA 7 Johnson/Broadleaf 460 by spring!

Steven likes showing off his Johnson, but with a Johnson like that, you can’t blame him!

Steven, the problem with turning that into a well-centered 7 is you would double the pop report...

Meanwhile, my favorite backs are Brown Old Mills, and I do collect them.

Beautiful cards everyone! Ryan, you’re cornering the Brown Old Mill market!

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Great stuff , Ryan...… you is the "brown OLD MILL man".

Looking forward to seeing you at the Philly Show next weekend.


TED Z
.

AMerican Beauty
 

Ted,

Currently I am going for the AB 460’s. I like the back and the players in the subset as well. If you have any toughies to move, let me know !! I missed a big one this week and am really in need of adding one to my collection.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Hi Adam

Sorry for the long delay in responding to you.

I do not have any extra AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards to offer you now. Most T206 collectors do not appreciate how difficult this run of 74 cards is to complete.

I've been working on this run since 2005. I have 72....I still need Camnitz (arms over head), and Larry Doyle (portrait). The PSA pop report indicates only one
of each of these two are graded. None in the SGC pop report.

If I pick up any new ones, I will certainly contact you.

Incidentally, which AB 460 did you miss out on ?


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duffy100xb.jpg



TED Z
.

Missed
 

Hi Ted,

Hope your well. Missed out on the McGraw. Definitely a tough one but another will show one day !!

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg


It fascinates me....the certain printing pattern similarities between the T206 & T205 sets. For example....(1) the 12 subjects in the T205 Minor League group, which is consistent
with my theory that American Lithographic (ALC) printed the T206 and T205 sets with a basic template of 12 cards across a given sheet (19-inch track width printing press).

(2) The AB = BL = CY = DRUM connection (see Posts #856 and #858) in this thread with respect to the T206 version of this printing pattern. And, you can refer to the current
thread on Net54 for the T205 version of this pattern...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=276902. This similarity is not serendipitous, it is by design.


Displayed here is one of my T205 (75%) complete A = B = C = D runs. If anyone on this forum has a spare BROAD LEAF Wolter, please email me....... tedzan11@comcast.net

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...T205Wolter.jpg................. ? ..………………….http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...T205Wolter.jpg

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...05WolterBk.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...205back25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...05WolterBk.jpg



The T205 group of 32 subjects which conform to this A = B = C = D pattern were printed with 8 additional Tobacco backs. I think a total of 12
different backs may be the most printed on any T205 subject. I may be wrong with this observation and I expect you T205 gurus will chime in.
Feel free to correct me.
Check-list of the T205 backs for this group of 32 subjects...………...http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...T205Wolter.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...205WolterB.jpg

AMERICAN BEAUTY (black print)
BROAD LEAF
CYCLE
DRUM
HASSAN (Factory #30)
HASSAN (Factory #649)
HONEST LONG CUT
PIEDMONT (Factory #25)
PIEDMONT (Factory #42)
POLAR BEAR
SOVEREIGN
SWEET CAPORAL (red print)

And, just as in the T206 set, the T205 BROAD LEAF and DRUM and PIEDMONT Factory #42 cards are very tough to find.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Exactly 14 years ago this month, I broke up my variable-back T206 set (521 cards) to seek the ultimate T206 run of an all - PIEDMONT set.
PIEDMONT Mission accomplished just 11 months later, I then continued on an all - SOVEREIGN set. At the same time, I was also collecting
T206's for an all - SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set.

I completed the SOVEREIGN set (408 cards) in less than a year. The SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set took me 10 years to complete (468
cards) when I finally acquired the Eddie Plank card.

One nice feature which these 3 sets have in common, is you don't have to get the Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations). Furthermore, the
Southern Leaguers were not printed with SOVEREIGN or this SWEET CAPORAL backs.

And, here is my favorite T206 card in each of these 3 sets..... WOW ! all three of these cards are graded. Ted has gone over to the "dark side" :)


PIEDMONT set

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohsonSGC40.jpg


SOVEREIGN set

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnsonPSA4.jpg



SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...weetCap150.jpg



TED Z
.